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By stonecoldrmw
#4994527
GBDave904 wrote: March 19th, 2024, 5:32 am
stonecoldrmw wrote: March 19th, 2024, 4:48 am

The pack is built - it looks and sounds great! Take a punt on it - it's a great way of getting a pack for such a small amount of cash upfront!
Id rather have my shell I paid for 16mos ago than gamble more money,but thats just me.
I get that, but at the same time, other suppliers issues can't be accounted for.

Admittedly, communication about that would help but the fact is, that hasn't happened, yet.
User avatar
By Mercifull
#4994529
Information on the "prize draw" is now out. I put it in air quotes because there is no free option to enter, so effectively it is a paid lottery/raffle.

Tickets cost £20.99 with tax included and are non-refundable. Your ticket number will be assigned to you and posted in public as well on the day before or the morning of the draw. The draw itself is claimed to be done on a live stream via social media (probably Facebook) on Tuesday 26th March 2024. Shipping is free worldwide to wherever the winner is based although I'm sure customs would have something to say about it on arrival and want their $0.2c.

Assuming a ~£2,000 build cost (parts + time + shipping) he's probably hoping to sell 100+ tickets to make it all back. There is no mention of any profits to charity etc should sales exceed the cost of production.

The pack does look incredible. I think it's fairly undeniable that it has been very well made. Many of the parts are from Macks Factory or genuine components like Clippard valves. There is no mention of who supplied the electronics. Due to the cost of entry, I don't believe that this is a scam or he will coincidentally pick a friend out of a hat, I think the genuine aim is just to sell enough tickets to cover the cost of the build. I shall refrain from posting the link because GBfans have technically banned the seller but I'm sure you know where to go if you want to look yourself.
Venkman1984 liked this
By stonecoldrmw
#4994534
Mercifull wrote: March 19th, 2024, 5:40 am Information on the "prize draw" is now out. I put it in air quotes because there is no free option to enter, so effectively it is a paid lottery/raffle.

Tickets cost £20.99 with tax included and are non-refundable. Your ticket number will be assigned to you and posted in public as well on the day before or the morning of the draw. The draw itself is claimed to be done on a live stream via social media (probably Facebook) on Tuesday 26th March 2024. Shipping is free worldwide to wherever the winner is based although I'm sure customs would have something to say about it on arrival and want their $0.2c.

Assuming a ~£2,000 build cost (parts + time + shipping) he's probably hoping to sell 100+ tickets to make it all back. There is no mention of any profits to charity etc should sales exceed the cost of production.

The pack does look incredible. I think it's fairly undeniable that it has been very well made. Many of the parts are from Macks Factory or genuine components like Clippard valves. There is no mention of who supplied the electronics. Due to the cost of entry, I don't believe that this is a scam or he will coincidentally pick a friend out of a hat, I think the genuine aim is just to sell enough tickets to cover the cost of the build. I shall refrain from posting the link because GBfans have technically banned the seller but I'm sure you know where to go if you want to look yourself.
Nowhere does it say it's for charity. The pack will absolutely have cost more than £2k to build. The electronics will be the same as all other PP packs - Ninja tunes.

FWIW, I have also entered the prize draw. I purchased a couple of days back.

I think a lot of this thread sounds very much like a which hunt - too many people who don't actually have any experience buying from this seller.
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User avatar
By Mercifull
#4994535
I didn’t think my post was particularly “witch hunty”. As I’ve said before in this thread I’ve ordered from the seller a few times, just nothing large. My 2k estimate was purely a bill of materials based on known pack part values. I didn’t know it was ninjatunes electronics. But it’s immaterial, people can find the proton props website and raffle (it’s not really a prize draw) themselves if they want to know more.
By tobycj
#4994536
Mercifull wrote: March 19th, 2024, 5:25 am
tobycj wrote: March 19th, 2024, 2:30 am Considering David orders most of the parts he doesn't make himself from gbfans his life now just got infinitely harder, and orders will be further delayed. Good one guys.

Also, Kingpin, why is BoK not blacklisted? Just because he replies to emails doesn't mean he's not a shady, lying prick.
Tbh banning from an online store is fairly symbolic. It would be trivial for orders to be made in someone else's name/address etc. I doubt in reality it would make any difference. If anything it's just given him another excuse to tell people ;)
He can't even access the store to check the status of outstanding orders he has open. And yes, he could have someone order on his behalf, which is an added admin burden, which then takes yet more time away from David building packs.
By tobycj
#4994537
Mercifull wrote: March 19th, 2024, 5:40 am Information on the "prize draw" is now out. I put it in air quotes because there is no free option to enter, so effectively it is a paid lottery/raffle.
Prize draws do not have to have a free entry option. You need to brush up on the definition of a prize draw. David is running a business, giving away £2k+ of stock without some form of payback is simply not an option for a small business with tight margins such as Proton Props.

Noun. prize draw (plural prize draws) A competition, such as a lottery or raffle, in which participants obtain a random chance to win a prize.

noun. a raffle or lottery.

I should also note I've entered all of David's prize draws/raffles to date, and not won a sausage, and he's one of my best friends, so it is totally random who wins.
User avatar
By Mercifull
#4994541
In the uk a prize draw of this kind with only a paid vehicle to entry is technically classed as a lottery. This is a form of gambling and therefor comes under regulation of the gambling commission. You also need to be 18 to enter.
Lotteries can only be run either to raise money for good causes or for fun. They cannot be run for private or commercial gain.
https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/p ... egulations

It’s why I mentioned a charitable element. You CAN run a raffle like this without a licence like for a club or a school etc, however the money cannot go towards commercial enterprises.

I’ve got no beef with David. But if this is being done to make profit beyond the cost of materials then there is risk of this “prize draw” falling foul of the Gambling Act 2005.
User avatar
By GBDave904
#4994543
stonecoldrmw wrote: March 19th, 2024, 5:37 am
GBDave904 wrote: March 19th, 2024, 5:32 am
Id rather have my shell I paid for 16mos ago than gamble more money,but thats just me.
I get that, but at the same time, other suppliers issues can't be accounted for.

Admittedly, communication about that would help but the fact is, that hasn't happened, yet.
Im sittin on 'sent' on the one message Ive sent to him in almost 2 years. He had the exact parts I ordered available to do the FE pack so 🤷‍♂️ granted Im not gonna call him a crook and I have been very relaxed about my whole experience and give him plenty of leeway with all the issues that have arisen. But you arent helping him or gonna sway anybody who is pissed the f*** off.
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By StarkMarkV
#4994545
Dave posted on his insta stories that 2 packs were ready to go to their forever homes. Kind of hoping one was mine.

But anyways, has anyone on this thread received a message from Dave in regards to said 2 packs???
User avatar
By StarkMarkV
#4994551
Astomp82 wrote: March 19th, 2024, 8:59 am I saw that and am doubtful one is mine since I ordered 9/15/21 and there are others ahead of me.
I'm actually just one month ahead of you. Don't think that matters much but just throwing it out there
User avatar
By edspengler
#4994562
I have been waiting for a shell, mounted motherboard, and spacers since November 2022. These are parts fabricated from raw materials and not something to be sourced from somewhere of he is truly building them on his own. I have reached out periodically and not gotten a reply. I asked yesterday for a concrete timeline or a refund yesterday and got a reply saying he’ll get me an update in a day or so. I am anticipating I might very well be out the money and that I have been had. The black listing makes me all the more worried that my money is gone.
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By OBSIDIAN
#4994563
I'm not buying the "sourcing parts" either. If you're waiting on parts, you have time to respond to messages. It shouldn't be that hard to say, I'm waiting on a clippard valve and then it's ready to go.
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By AJ Quick
#4994571
Can anyone tell me, how many of you saw a solicitation on GBFans' For Sale forum and then made your purchase? Or did you make a purchase from David on his site or from his own social media accounts? He has never made a For Sale posting here, so I am not sure why we are having this one sided discussion to pile on him here.

David buys parts from me regularly. He has often times purchased large batches of parts to finish commissions, he absolutely waits on parts. Imagine how long it took for 1 single parts supplier to get me a batch of hat lights for 12 months. Then imagine there were people like David waiting on those parts to finish a commission. It's just like that, but for dozens of parts.

I don't think David is out to rip people off. The wait and communication is obviously terrible. He is a much better prop builder than business man, that much is for sure.

There is a reason why the Blacklist hasn't been updated for 10+ years. GBFans is no longer the for sale hub that it used to be. What is the point of banning David or BOK if neither are active here and neither are selling their products here? I agree the list of grievances against BOK are probably greater than David. We cannot police the greater Ghostbusters community and we cannot keep track of every single seller off of the site and make recommendations. The blacklist does not have the same impact or effect as it once did when GBFans was literally the place to go for things for sale. It isn't like the absence from being on the list means that any particular seller is good either.
RedSpecial, StarkMarkV, stonecoldrmw and 5 others liked this
By Astomp82
#4994573
I bought via Etsy when his store was still there. For what it’s worth I don’t think a ban/blacklist is warranted since poor communication is all that he is really guilty of. I’ve been waiting 2.5 years and while I’m frustrated sometimes, I don’t think I’ve been scammed.
StarkMarkV liked this
User avatar
By GBDave904
#4994577
I did talk to David briefly today after he reached out to me. I think the ban is a bit much and only hinders things. However I think some of the highly accusatory responses on both sides need to be handled or squashed outright. As far as Im concerned only 1 person besides David himself has any real insight to what is going on. Otherwise its all speculation.
Specter Mitcher liked this
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By edspengler
#4994581
I purchased directly from the site. To be clear, the purpose of my post in this forum is not to pile on, but to share my experience which seems to be common. I am not judging work quality or craftsmanship, I can’t, it seems it’s wonderful from all the pictures. I am stating what has taken place from date of purchase until now and how reading similar accounts now makes me feel.
User avatar
By gerard55
#4994595
Mercifull wrote: March 19th, 2024, 5:40 am Information on the "prize draw" is now out. I put it in air quotes because there is no free option to enter, so effectively it is a paid lottery/raffle.

Tickets cost £20.99 with tax included and are non-refundable. Your ticket number will be assigned to you and posted in public as well on the day before or the morning of the draw. The draw itself is claimed to be done on a live stream via social media (probably Facebook) on Tuesday 26th March 2024. Shipping is free worldwide to wherever the winner is based although I'm sure customs would have something to say about it on arrival and want their $0.2c.

Assuming a ~£2,000 build cost (parts + time + shipping) he's probably hoping to sell 100+ tickets to make it all back. There is no mention of any profits to charity etc should sales exceed the cost of production.

The pack does look incredible. I think it's fairly undeniable that it has been very well made. Many of the parts are from Macks Factory or genuine components like Clippard valves. There is no mention of who supplied the electronics. Due to the cost of entry, I don't believe that this is a scam or he will coincidentally pick a friend out of a hat, I think the genuine aim is just to sell enough tickets to cover the cost of the build. I shall refrain from posting the link because GBfans have technically banned the seller but I'm sure you know where to go if you want to look yourself.
I bought a ticket on the ofc hance, pack looks great in terms of build, but I'm not a big fan of the FE addons in general. Still for £21 worth a punt.
By SpookyD513
#4994609
I ordered in August of 2021. Neither of those are mine. Dave messaged me yesterday, stated he would get back to me in a day or so with an update. Not holding my breath. I’ve found out that he responds fairly quickly if you message him from a different email.
User avatar
By edspengler
#4994612
My conversation today did not go very well. After posting in this forum above I was told that I was “slinging sh*t that cannot be unslung”. Also when I asked for a time table I was told another 6 to 8 weeks which means this whole time went by without anything being done and without a response to ocasional inquiries.

After giving it some thought I came to the conclusion that is not how someone should speak to a paying customer and I decided to terminate our relationship and asked for my money back. In any other profesional setting my simple but valid questions would have been major red flags to be addressed with immediate damage control and not snarky remarks. Whether or not my refund request is honored remains to be seen.

I have worked in customer service for many years as well as an engineering and heavy construction consultant for over 15 years, I would never talk to a client like that especially someone that has already paid for a service I have yet to provide and has been civil towards me the entire time. He did apologize for the tone of the conversation but at that point I was already done mentally writing this off. I wish him the best with his remaining endeavors.
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By edspengler
#4994615
AJ Quick wrote: March 19th, 2024, 12:47 pm Can anyone tell me, how many of you saw a solicitation on GBFans' For Sale forum and then made your purchase? Or did you make a purchase from David on his site or from his own social media accounts? He has never made a For Sale posting here, so I am not sure why we are having this one sided discussion to pile on him here.

David buys parts from me regularly. He has often times purchased large batches of parts to finish commissions, he absolutely waits on parts. Imagine how long it took for 1 single parts supplier to get me a batch of hat lights for 12 months. Then imagine there were people like David waiting on those parts to finish a commission. It's just like that, but for dozens of parts.

I don't think David is out to rip people off. The wait and communication is obviously terrible. He is a much better prop builder than business man, that much is for sure.

There is a reason why the Blacklist hasn't been updated for 10+ years. GBFans is no longer the for sale hub that it used to be. What is the point of banning David or BOK if neither are active here and neither are selling their products here? I agree the list of grievances against BOK are probably greater than David. We cannot police the greater Ghostbusters community and we cannot keep track of every single seller off of the site and make recommendations. The blacklist does not have the same impact or effect as it once did when GBFans was literally the place to go for things for sale. It isn't like the absence from being on the list means that any particular seller is good either.
One major factor to consider - From everything I have read, Ben of Kent despite his issues has refunded customers when called to task.
User avatar
By Specter Mitcher
#4994620
I have an '89 pack on order with David, so I have a "dog in the fight" as they say. As such, let me just share my thoughts....banning David from not only the forum, but also the store is both pointless and counter-productive. Does anyone really think anything positive is going to be gained from that? Are any of his sales actually affiliated with this forum to begin with? It sure doesn't seem like he's using GBfans as any sort of a "business hub". So again...not sure I see the point to a "blacklist" levied against him here. I actually learned about him from an RPF post, not GBfans. And making it so he cannot buy parts only hurts the customers that haven't yet snapped from impatience and cancelled their orders... Bad move on the admin team's part IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic to others (like me) who are still waiting on packs. And it's not kosher to suddenly go dark from social media and email/instant messenger for months on end like that...but a ban only hinders both his ability to communicate and make packs.
User avatar
By edspengler
#4994900
Update: my order was cancelled and the notice says a refund is in process. As far is it goes between us, the matter is settled.

A factual assessment based on user testimony is as follows. The facts show all of his UK customers get their purchases in a timely manner, but overseas USA customers are a different story. The one exception to UK fulfillment is the winner of the 2022 Halloween raffle (more on that to follow). Some get great communication and updates, some get radio silence. He seems reluctant to provide refunds to those that request them. This is not an opinion. These are facts based on information gathered first hand that anyone can read.

One USA customer has been denied a refund due to materials having been purchased for the order that was placed in 2022. However materials stated are raw materials only, not specialized pre fabricated parts from other vendors such as valves or metal fittings, but resin and fiberglass and a laser cut motherboard; such materials would have to be on hand in his shop already regardless of who purchased a specific item. A shop of this level could be expected to have several laser cut motherboards or spares on hand for incoming or current builds. If individual hobbyists hoard specialized hardware, a seller would do that even more so to have a supply on hand.

Now on raffles. 2022 Halloween raffle for the Phoebe Spengler Pack was not clear on whether it was a finished item or product to be built. He states “all prize draw posts, this is a one off and this is the actual pack someone’s going to win.” Hence referring to the pack pictured. The winner of the 2022 raffle was under the impression it was a ready built pack, however they are still waiting for their pack now in 2024 being told materials are hard to come by. The winner that purchased a raffle ticket has yet to receive the item won in the raffle. The Frozen Empire pack raffle is pictured as finished and it is stated the pack pictured is the one to be shipped to the winner. This remains to be seen. Furthermore, it seems questionable to use raffles as a way to generate shop revenue rather than sale of actual goods. Mostly all raffles in our fandom are for charity or are free entry, not ticket sales for personal gain.

Now for my opinion. His builds are obviously first class all the way, quality, accuracy, workmanship, everything - not only for pictures but all his client testimonials. Where he falls through is communication to clients. He is unwilling to admit any fault whatsoever and will place the blame on the customer for holding him to task - upon making public statements on my personal experience in this forum I was told that I was slinging sh*t and out to sink his business when I stated what has happened and how I feel about it. I - the customer that paid him - am the problem to his business. Rather than an apology, empathetic statement, or trying to reassure my doubts, I got snarky remarks and off handed quips as if I was beholden to him for his product. At this point regardless of refund I no longer wanted his product for the level of arrogance it represents to me, I could not have that product in my home.

Conclusion. If you are UK based you’ll likely get your order on time as promised and you’ll be happy. If you are based outside the UK proceed with caution.

How to improve based on user feedback:
Gain a little bit of humility and realize that his customers are the reason his shop exists, not the other way around. Address communication, perhaps take payments in installments as a build proceeds for larger items. BE TRANSPARENT with customers when there is a delay, inform them of a status change right away.

If you are in the USA and feel you have been the victim of foreign fraud you can file a report here:

https://www.econsumer.gov/en/FileAComplaint#crnt

Note the site says agencies within the map that collaborate are both USA and UK.

With that, my dealings with Proton Props are finished.
User avatar
By AJ Quick
#4994980
I wanted to address the recent discussions surrounding Dave and ProtonProps. It's clear that many in our community have voiced frustrations regarding their experiences with Dave, highlighting issues such as poor communication, slow build speed, and various setbacks.

First and foremost, I want to make it clear that GBFans currently has no affiliation with ProtonProps, nor do we endorse or promote their sales on our platform. We prioritize maintaining a neutral position on such matters, ensuring our community members have the freedom to express their opinions and experiences openly.

Given recent developments, we've decided to lift Dave's forum ban. This decision is aimed at fostering open dialogue and giving Dave the opportunity to address concerns directly within our community. However, it's crucial to understand that this action does not signify a reversal of our ban on selling or soliciting sales on our platform. That policy remains firmly in place.

When it comes to commissioning Proton Packs or any custom prop, it's undoubtedly a challenging process, often fraught with delays and complications. In such instances, we encourage our members to explore alternative options, such as purchasing already completed packs or embarking on the rewarding journey of creating their own using components available at the GBFans.com Shop.

While we acknowledge the frustrations expressed by members regarding ProtonProps, we remain steadfast in our commitment to maintaining neutrality and supporting our community. We urge all members to continue engaging respectfully and constructively, creating an environment where everyone's voices can be heard. This forum remains a "Buyer Beware" zone, and it's essential to use your judgment when making purchases, especially ones costing several thousand dollars.
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By Mercifull
#4995443
The Proton Props Frozen Empire pack "prize" draw has been extended by a week. It was originally planned to be drawn today (Tuesday 26th March) but will now take place on Tuesday April 2nd instead.

As the ban has been lifted by GBFans I am providing the direct link for anyone interested in entering or just reading about it or looking at the photographs. https://protonpropsuk.com/products/froz ... draw-entry
By gentrificationzolaz
#4995444
Mercifull wrote: March 19th, 2024, 7:37 am In the uk a prize draw of this kind with only a paid vehicle to entry is technically classed as a lottery. This is a form of gambling and therefor comes under regulation of the gambling commission. You also need to be 18 to enter.
Lotteries can only be run either to raise money for good causes or for fun. They cannot be run for private or commercial gain.
https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/p ... egulations

It’s why I mentioned a charitable element. You CAN run a raffle like this without a licence like for a club or a school etc, however the money cannot go towards commercial enterprises.

I’ve got no beef with David. But if this is being done to make profit beyond the cost of materials then there is risk of this “prize draw” falling foul of the Gambling Act 2005.
Lotteries must either raise funds for charitable purposes or be conducted for entertainment purposes only. They cannot be organized for private or commercial gain as far as I know.
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