[mrmichaelt]

it needed to have the song, why not have the song? Would made it all the more impactful.

It probably has something to with negotiations with Ray Parker, Jr and what stipulations are in the agreement. He does own it. Maybe the agreement is they paid him $xxxxxx to use it once in the movie or however many times it's used. Sony didn't want to pay up to a certain amount. etc.

[An Invisible Bed]

it needed to have the song, why not have the song? Would made it all the more impactful.

It probably has something to with negotiations with Ray Parker, Jr and what stipulations are in the agreement. He does own it. Maybe the agreement is they paid him $xxxxxx to use it once in the movie or however many times it's used. Sony didn't want to pay up to a certain amount. etc.

Makes sense, but it spoils somewhat what otherwise was an amazing cold opening.

After that scene the "DUDDA DUDDA DUDDA" beat would have hit like a freight train.

[deadderek]

And as a big time nerd, it frustrates me they seem to want to ignore the 2009 game, it was written by Dan and Ramis, was the last time all the guys played the characters together, it should be considered a canon story, I get most audiences wouldn't know it, but it seems odd to contradict and not have some little tip of the hate, at least this time we confirmation II is canon.

Sucks the Video Game isn't canon but nothing changes that now. I'll try to find the article but the writing credits for Dan and Harold were somewhat embellished.

Also GB2 was confirmed as canon years ago. There was literally not a single reason to doubt it. Not one. No interview or anythig to even remotely suggest it wouldn't be. Just a couple really stupid people on social media who questioned if it would be canon when the teaser was released for Afterlife.

[tylergfoster]

Sucks they Video Game isn't canon but nothing changes that now. I'll try to find the article but the writing credits for Dan and Harold were somewhat embellished.

My understanding is that they were more than somewhat embellished, but almost completely promotional, with the game studio having written the script before approaching Dan and Harold, who both basically gave it a once over to make sure the lore and feel were right.

[WCat2000]

Saw it today. A good handful of adults and kids in the theater. They laughed at basically all of the jokes and I did too. I thought the humor was very well done.

I thought them running after the trash bag and Kumail’s stuff were hilarious

This Post Contains Spoilers

Anyway I really enjoyed the movie. Not sure how I’d score it yet but I agree with the overall criticism that things seem a bit rushed and a few things don’t quite make sense but nothing too bad imo. I’m sure things will come off better on repeated viewings. I do think Afterlife is better put together but that’s just because it’s centered on discovering Egon’s work. I’ll post more specific thoughts later.

I saw some people say it was deceptive advertising but I very much DISagree with that. Deleted Trailer Scenes happen for all movies. The issue is releasing trailers before a final edit. Posters don’t typically depict stuff that actually happens either. Not that I remember. They’re just meant to look cool.

The way we perceive trailers is often different from how the actual movie goes. FE does deliver what was advertised. It’s just out of context. I remember I pictured a pretty different movie for Curse of Chucky.

[mrmichaelt]

I'll try to find the article but the writing credits for Dan and Harold were somewhat embellished.

Here's two:

https://www.spookcentral.tk/2023/01/21/ ... ene-script

Flint and I [John Zuur Platten] did the first draft (and three additional drafts) of the Ghostbusters game script while it was in development at Sierra. Dan and Harold were part of the approval process at that point, but gave us very little input other than some high level notes. The big issue was "would Bill Murray be involved or not", which meant we did a draft that wrote out Venkman in the first scene. Of course, once we had done our drafts, Harold and Dan did a "punch up", re-writing mostly dialogue (which both Flint and I think was great - it was an honor to play in their world).

John Melchior was an executive at Sierra on the project, and came up with some of the ideas. He was not involved in writing with us, but appears to have made some contributions. Patrick we never met (not unusual in this business). He may have been involved directly with Terminal Reality (who we met early on in the process).

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/arts/31schi.html

They gave me [Dan Aykroyd] the script. I took it. I rewrote it doing little tiny structural things, mostly bringing back the tone of the original dialogue and the vernacular - the terms, the idiom - but they really had it. Two-thirds of it was there. Then they gave it to Harold. He did the same thing.

edit: Emily Ng portrayed one of the scientists at the Paranormal Research Center. Based on what she said and one of the stills, she's the one using the Slime Blower in the background while Lars is moving the orb around with the grabber claw. Bonus, for her character's name, they named her after one of the costume designers Ruth Myers.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4558Hbofe-/

[13th Floor]

Best scene in the movie is definetly Ray and Winston arguing in the police station.Ernie and Dan have have a ton of chemistry and in such.a short scene.
Also another case of some dialogue cut.I don't remember Winston saying "New York is just the beginning" like in some tv spots

[gamera1968]

After my second viewing of the movie, I'll give my overall, yet brief, thoughts.

I did enjoy the movie as a whole, but as others mentioned, the ending seemed rushed.
Wasn't Garaka supposed to be a world-ending threat with the whole "Death Chill" thing?

Only one person died (on-screen) in the modern day setting. (the vape shopkeeper named "Fire Master".)

The entire ghost-girl Melody plot seemed kind of pointless, but she did help the Fire Master when they all faced Garaka at the firehouse.
(I get WHY Melody was there and Phoebe was going through a hard time being benched throughout most of the movie, so she needed someone to talk to and to sympathize with, I guess.)
The side plot of Trevor VS Slimer was fun, but that could've been handled better. (He did blast the ugly green spud in one of the trailers, IIRC)

Winston should've been more of a help in regards to the failing ecto containment unit, and fixing up the firehouse.
And the Ecto-1 itself had a lot of electrical problems that should've been taken care of two years prior when it was upgraded and repainted.

I wanted to see more of the Paranormal research Lab and Lars.
I also wanted to see more of Venkman interacting with everyone, since his office was at the lab.
I think that's all of my gripes, but I still rate it a solid 8 out of 10.

It seems to me (and everyone else) that there was a lot of deleted and/ or trimmed scenes that would've filled in most of the plot holes riddled throughout the entire story.
Hopefully, there will be an extended director's cut once it is released on DVD/Blu-ray.

[BrianReilly]

Also, not trying to be mean to anyone involved with the movie -- I really liked it! -- but

I would honestly kind of wonder if there really is that much stuff on the cutting room floor or if the filmmakers just didn't think some of these ideas all the way through.

This Post Contains Spoilers

I mean, definitely there are a LOT of ideas in this movie. How many of them made their way, fully intact, into the shooting script, and how many of those actually were filmed before being cut is the big mystery here.

The more I think about it, the more it appears to me that the central arc for the main four was originally about finding your place within your family and learning to trust/rely on them. Gary is trying to figure out how to be a step-father and not just a friend, Trevor is growing into an adult and struggling to find his place as the least "talented" one. Phoebe is feeling left behind and turning to an outsider as a result. Callie, I assume, had some kind of related arc at some point (possibly about trusting her kids). It works on paper, but there's only scraps of it in the finished film

This Post Contains Spoilers

[hutto]

Winston should've been more of a help in regards to the failing ecto containment unit

Were they not going to transplant the ghosts into the new one? The original was clearly about to explode. Causing another crossrip would be a higher priority to me. They just kind of explain the failure for the audience and move on. Movie just does stuff.

[mrmichaelt]

Were they not going to transplant the ghosts into the new one? The original was clearly about to explode. Causing another crossrip would be a higher priority to me. They just kind of explain the failure for the audience and move on. Movie just does stuff.

Yeah, they estimated it would take them something like 3-7 years to transfer it to the one in the PRC. Of course, that doesn't matter anymore. Granted Garraka's Death Chill didn't take out the new unit, I guess the GB will directly deposit their recaptures into that one. In a way, it does loosely sync up the procedure in Hellbent. Having to take captures to a facility away from HQ.

[BatDan]

I could've swore i saw Venkman in the background in the trailers in the first Para Lab scene...in the film.. I swear you can see him walk up behind one character in one shot, and then disappears in the next frame. Did anyone else notice this? I wonder his stuff was cut. Woulda been nice to have an extra scene with all 3 GBs present showing the new recruits around.

[BrianReilly]

I could've swore i saw Venkman in the background in the trailers in the first Para Lab scene...in the film.. I swear you can see him walk up behind one character in one shot, and then disappears in the next frame. Did anyone else notice this? I wonder his stuff was cut. Woulda been nice to have an extra scene with all 3 GBs present showing the new recruits around.

I've only seen the film once, and haven't put much thought into where this would fit, but there was definitely some more Murray stuff.

[hutto]

I could've swore i saw Venkman in the background in the trailers in the first Para Lab scene...in the film.. I swear you can see him walk up behind one character in one shot, and then disappears in the next frame. Did anyone else notice this? I wonder his stuff was cut. Woulda been nice to have an extra scene with all 3 GBs present showing the new recruits around.

I've only seen the film once, and haven't put much thought into where this would fit, but there was definitely some more Murray stuff.

Venkman pep talk about being a stepfather.

[BrianReilly]

Venkman pep talk about being a stepfather.

LOL not a bad guess!

What's interesting is that Venkman appears to be in uniform under his coat, and Gary is definitely not in uniform. When could this have taken place? Well, Venkman's dressed for winter here and the basement is frozen over so it must be after everyone arrives at the firehouse. It also looks to me like those are a bunch of space heaters surrounding them, suggesting there was originally a plot point around them trying to thaw out the containment unit.

Another thing to note is that in the finished film, Venkman apparently travels across a frozen NY wearing nothing but his jumpsuit and orange shirt, which makes no sense, except that in the reshoots they didn't want to lose his orange shirt (he's still wearing the same shirt 40 years later because nostalgia!) and they had to work around the rest of the shots inside the firehouse where he isn't wearing it.

[hutto]

Venkman pep talk about being a stepfather.

LOL not a bad guess!

What's interesting is that Venkman appears to be in uniform under his coat, and Gary is definitely not in uniform. When could this have taken place? Well, Venkman's dressed for winter here and the basement is frozen over so it must be after everyone arrives at the firehouse. It also looks to me like those are a bunch of space heaters surrounding them, suggesting there was originally a plot point around them trying to thaw out the containment unit.

Another thing to note is that in the finished film, Venkman apparently travels across a frozen NY wearing nothing but his jumpsuit and orange shirt, which makes no sense, except that in the reshoots they didn't want to lose his orange shirt (he's still wearing the same shirt 40 years later because nostalgia!) and they had to work around the rest of the shots inside the firehouse where he isn't wearing it.

That could've been a funny bit. Considering the "Well, I would shaved, hit the clubs..." All terrible fatherly advice that is a contrast to the complete pushover Gary is. In the end, just make due. They abandoned that backbone for Phoebe. Gary should've saved the day. He didn't really do anything to warrant being called 'dad' at the end.

Hell, I don't know. Movies such a mess, i'm surprised they pulled off any kind of coherent story.

[SpaceBallz]

One thing I might have missed: did they explain why ghosts are around again after the whole "there hasn't been a ghost sighting in 30 years/the business dried up" stuff in the last one? I feel like it could have been mentioned during the news montage/info dump in the beginning, but I was distracted by the toy commercial and music video clips.

I thought about that too, then I remembered that Gozer re-manifested in Afterlife and released a bunch of spooks into the world again. In GB2 the business died off because they captured them all from the first time, so the producers re-exploded the containment unit again to make sure they stay in business for longer than a few years

The more I think about it, the more I realized...WALTER PECK WAS RIGHT. If Ray wasn't collecting haunted objects for his new internet podcast, that orb would have never been brought in for money and the entity would have never gotten released and said entity would have never re-exploded the containment unit. Everyone cheering the Ghostbusters at the end? Why? The Ghostbusters are about to charge everyone big bucks to clean up their own mess!

[An Invisible Bed]

I'll try to find the article but the writing credits for Dan and Harold were somewhat embellished.

Here's two:

https://www.spookcentral.tk/2023/01/21/ ... ene-script

Flint and I [John Zuur Platten] did the first draft (and three additional drafts) of the Ghostbusters game script while it was in development at Sierra. Dan and Harold were part of the approval process at that point, but gave us very little input other than some high level notes. The big issue was "would Bill Murray be involved or not", which meant we did a draft that wrote out Venkman in the first scene. Of course, once we had done our drafts, Harold and Dan did a "punch up", re-writing mostly dialogue (which both Flint and I think was great - it was an honor to play in their world).

John Melchior was an executive at Sierra on the project, and came up with some of the ideas. He was not involved in writing with us, but appears to have made some contributions. Patrick we never met (not unusual in this business). He may have been involved directly with Terminal Reality (who we met early on in the process).

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/arts/31schi.html

They gave me [Dan Aykroyd] the script. I took it. I rewrote it doing little tiny structural things, mostly bringing back the tone of the original dialogue and the vernacular - the terms, the idiom - but they really had it. Two-thirds of it was there. Then they gave it to Harold. He did the same thing.

edit: Emily Ng portrayed one of the scientists at the Paranormal Research Center. Based on what she said and one of the stills, she's the one using the Slime Blower in the background while Lars is moving the orb around with the grabber claw. Bonus, for her character's name, they named her after one of the costume designers Ruth Myers.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4558Hbofe-/

And as a big time nerd, it frustrates me they seem to want to ignore the 2009 game, it was written by Dan and Ramis, was the last time all the guys played the characters together, it should be considered a canon story, I get most audiences wouldn't know it, but it seems odd to contradict and not have some little tip of the hate, at least this time we confirmation II is canon.

Sucks the Video Game isn't canon but nothing changes that now. I'll try to find the article but the writing credits for Dan and Harold were somewhat embellished.

Also GB2 was confirmed as canon years ago. There was literally not a single reason to doubt it. Not one. No interview or anythig to even remotely suggest it wouldn't be. Just a couple really stupid people on social media who questioned if it would be canon when the teaser was released for Afterlife.

For me the game is canon, even if I just got to play pretend and "headcanon" things.

Even if Harold and Dan didn't write the whole thing, the game nevertheless nailed it and slotted in perfectly as the third story, for years that was all we had and I really grew attached to it, it's really too bad I can't treat the whole thing as a solid canon as I love the new movies and enthusiastically consider them canon, but at the of the day it's all fiction and you can look at it however you want to look at it.

As far as II, I always assumed it was canon, but there were still no direct references in Afterlife and it's nice to get one in Frozen Empire.

[zeta otaku]

Was... was Ray's Occult, which only appeared in GB2 at the time, not enough of a direct reference to GB2 in Afterlife???

[An Invisible Bed]

Was... was Ray's Occult, which only appeared in GB2 at the time, not enough of a direct reference to GB2 in Afterlife???

Pretty much, but seeing a clip of the statue of liberty walking removed any shadow of doubt at all, which was nice.


Anyway, as a fan of not just Ghostbusters, but late 70s, early 80s sci fi, fantasy and horror in general, things like Bernie Wrightson (concept artist for the original movie) and Heavy Metal, the magazine/movie (produced by Ivan Reitman) it's so cool to see something of that lineage in 2024 be as good as it with Frozen Empire.

I wish I could pitch a Heavy Metal reboot to Jason Reitman in fact.

[13th Floor]

I could've swore i saw Venkman in the background in the trailers in the first Para Lab scene...in the film.. I swear you can see him walk up behind one character in one shot, and then disappears in the next frame. Did anyone else notice this? I wonder his stuff was cut. Woulda been nice to have an extra scene with all 3 GBs present showing the new recruits around.

I've only seen the film once, and haven't put much thought into where this would fit, but there was definitely some more Murray stuff.

Yeah this definetly went through some rushed rewrites and reshoots.
It seems like the waiting period before Garraka arrived took a bit longer,long enough for the crew to put on winter clothes and look around the containment unit(Venkman & Gary scene)
I guess with the stepdad plot being reduced that also affected the pace of the finale.
It all feels like the movie was way too big and Gil wanted some of the cast to go through an individual journey,but there wasn't enough time for that.So you get Phoebe's arc(which already kinda feels like it was reduced) and Gary's half assed arc?
Ray also feels like it's missing something.He wants to go back in the team and there is the great talk with winston but then it stops there.

[tylergfoster]

Venkman pep talk about being a stepfather.

LOL not a bad guess!

What's interesting is that Venkman appears to be in uniform under his coat, and Gary is definitely not in uniform. When could this have taken place?

I'm realizing that almost the entire movie when we see Gary out of uniform, he's wearing the same clothing: an orange-ish plaid shirt, which you can see in the photo under his sweaters. Venkman is introduced in the film at the lab interviewing Nadeem, and then later Nadeem is at the firehouse. So maybe Venkman interviews Nadeem, and then when he's done, accompanies him to the firehouse, and at that point chats with Gary in the basement. Meanwhile, this would be when Phoebe is now at the lab getting into the extractor.

[Avilos]

At the end Winston said on live tv “We are the Ghostbusters”. I took that to mean that everyone suited up in front of the Firehouse. Which very much includes Ray. We may have only seen the Spenglers and plus Gary ride of in the Ecto 1 but I got no sense anyone is really retired. That everyone showed up to fight Garraka is a big theme of the movie. Adopted family. Phoebe calls Ray her Uncle.

I have seen it 3 times and gets better with each viewing. Each audience is laughing at all the jokes. Picking up things I missed.

First time I assumed Venkman’s office was at the University he teaches at. Not sure why I thought that. Clearly his office is at the Paranormal Research Center. So he is not really fully retired from all this. As much as Ray seems to miss going out on calls he clearly can show up the Research Center whenever he wants and contributes to what they do.

When Afterlife came out I never expected all the surviving Ghosterbusters including Janine to regularly involved in the business. Many may need last shot of them going on a call. But final battle is huge sign they can suit up whenever they want to or are needed.

[JonXCTrack]

A few minor nitpicks:

Why is it that the OGBs have the chemical gloves, but the newer cast does not?

No belt gizmos?

No life guards?

If the ECU blew up, how come nobody was hurt by it? Shouldn't the red geyser have blown a hole through the first floor and then the ceilings above?

[SpaceBallz]

No belt gizmos?

No life guards?

Outdated tech. I think Dan was asked about them a few months ago and he mentioned something about the gizmos being there in case of some kind of electric discharge from the packs (grounded them or something).

[groschopf]

The more I think about it, the more I realized...WALTER PECK WAS RIGHT. If Ray wasn't collecting haunted objects for his new internet podcast, that orb would have never been brought in for money and the entity would have never gotten released and said entity would have never re-exploded the containment unit. Everyone cheering the Ghostbusters at the end? Why? The Ghostbusters are about to charge everyone big bucks to clean up their own mess!

I mean... I didn't want to say it, but... yeah. Maybe Nadeem would have taken the orb to a pawn shop, but the chanting was necessary to open it—and that wasn't going to happen without Ray, Phoebe, and Podcast accidentally leading the Possessor to a wax recording that later got blown up, or Phoebe gambling it all on making a connection that got upended.

And yes, if a for-profit business like a landfill blew up and shot trash everywhere, no one would be rooting for the people in charge of it.

I guess we shouldn't overthink this, because it is just a movie, and fashioned more after the heightened reality of the animated series than the original film.

But I'm still waiting for the points you raised to be part of the next Pitch Meeting video

[groschopf]

Still, everything SB just mentioned would make great plot points in the next film. Imagine if a rival company sets-up shop. Why hire the people deemed responsible for the crisis to solve it?

With the precedents set in RBG and IDW story lines, the script practically writes itself:

• Disposing of ghosts instead of just containing them would be a lucrative talking point for the competition.

• The demand for mopping up the paranormal spill from the Containment Unit rupture would be high

• Mayor Peck would LOVE to throw city contracts at anyone who could bankrupt the Ghostbusters.

• A rival ghost squad would "disrupt" the field of paranormal investigations and eliminations with new tech.

"Who ya gonna call? No one. This is the 21st century. We have a convenient app. Our rivals still have a landline..."

Imagine a bunch of complete jerks with lightweight packs making TikToks while on busts and creating an even bigger problem with their new system meant to skirt oversight and employee protections.

[tylergfoster]

I dunno about the TikToks, but I can get behind the idea of a rival team that Peck tries to push instead of the Ghostbusters. That said, I stand by what I said "The Future" thread that a third movie in the Afterlife mold should feature some kind of character-driven conflict at the heart of it that provides the dramatic and emotional climax, and I still think it should be a breakthrough between Phoebe and Callie, and as a secondary thread, the solidification of all four of them as a family. The thing about so many story pitches we could have for another movie is that they feel like a fleeting event (even saving the world), and thus reinforce the sense that Ghostbusters cries out for an episodic treatment. Nothing too wrong with "rival Ghostbusters," but it does feel like it could be an episode of a TV show.

[timeware]

If were talking sequel ideas already i think:

Winston should be Mayor, or running against Peck. Give Peck a reason to interfere with the election by making the OG's unpopular. He's backing a new team, providing the ghosts. He eventually summons a ghost that gets to big for his team.

Divide the film into two locations. The Ghostbusters should be working on moving the franchise to a new state or country.

[deadderek]

Was... was Ray's Occult, which only appeared in GB2 at the time, not enough of a direct reference to GB2 in Afterlife???

Pretty much, but seeing a clip of the statue of liberty walking removed any shadow of doubt at all, which was nice.


Anyway, as a fan of not just Ghostbusters, but late 70s, early 80s sci fi, fantasy and horror in general, things like Bernie Wrightson (concept artist for the original movie) and Heavy Metal, the magazine/movie (produced by Ivan Reitman) it's so cool to see something of that lineage in 2024 be as good as it with Frozen Empire.

I wish I could pitch a Heavy Metal reboot to Jason Reitman in fact.

Between Ray's Occult being in Afterlife and Jason himself saying GB2 was canon it blows my mind the mental gymnastics someone performs to still think "derrr IDK if it's canon."