#4975906
What materials and techniques would they use back in 1984 that were readily available and a bunch of novices could use to make these portable handmade tools that would be durable enough for dangerous heavy duty work? I'm aware that the film is fictional and creative licensing was taken, but I'm curious if there's a more concrete or official answer.

The packs look like they would have been made from steel or aluminum and spray painted black which is why silver nicks appear from wear, but the bumpy texture on the packs specifically give the impression that it could be cast iron. I'm not sure if this was because of the quick and dirty construction that the prop makers did, or if it's intentional. The original props were made from fiberglass, but in the world of the film, that wouldn't safely contain nuclear power. It makes me wonder what, if any parts might be made from lead.

I noticed Mack's Factory offered two versions of their replicas in Legacy and Idealized. Legacy offering the replicas with exact imperfections of the original props. Close scrutiny wasn't expected of these props when the film was made and you can see a lot of jank in the originals. But that works in its favor for something made by amateurs.

Any insight would be appreciated.
One time liked this
#4975933
Due to the welding I'd say thin lined steel plates 1.5-2.0mm thick, leaning more towards 2.0mm. Steel as opposed to aluminum because aluminum is much more difficult to weld (TIG or MIG), esp in 1983.

Areas lined with thicker radiation shielding components like the cyclotron housing, maybe lead lined. Or due to the extreme wight of lead it may be a steel alloy with lead inclusions. Or really any other steel alloy that will stop α-radiation β- radiation and gamma & X-rays.

The parapet like sections around some of the upper parts of the pack I'd always assumed to be a plate steel to offer greater protection to the parts that require it most.

For some reason I always thought the "fuel isotope" (Curium-246?) or where the fuel goes, would be a compartment accessed from behind the large square sticker under the crank knob (the warning label).
Last edited by One time on January 2nd, 2023, 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nighty80, GBKid1984 liked this
#4975957
Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful responses, especially One Time. This is the kind of obsessive observation I came here for. I wasn't sure if there was some official source or not that detailed what I was asking. I'm doing as much research as I can to really try to get into the essence and methodology behind everything. The props were already pretty heavy. I wonder how heavy that much steel would weigh.

I did a little research on real cyclotrons and I wonder if the thing fans call the Bumper is suppose to be a magnet yoke. Even though it's fiction, I'm always fascinated by the inspiration and research that goes into making something believable. It's mostly over my head, but there's actual scientific knowledge and research behind the parts and not just making it look cool. I'm falling down the rabbit hole.

Does anyone know what the grips on the wand would have been made of? Wood? Taken from an existing mass produced firearm?
Last edited by GBKid1984 on January 1st, 2023, 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4975962
Nighty80 wrote: December 30th, 2022, 6:26 am
UEF wrote: December 30th, 2022, 3:49 am Bolted together things that already existed - mostly made of metal like you say. I assume.
I always assumed the same - and wasn’t there an RGB episode where Ray scratch builds one from stock parts?
I think you are recalling S2 Ep3 - Play Them Ragtime Boos.
Nighty80 liked this
#4975971
GBKid1984 wrote: December 30th, 2022, 7:52 pm Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful responses, especially One Time. This is the kind of obsessive observation I came here for. I wasn't sure if there was some official source or not that detailed what I was asking. I'm doing as much research as I can to really try to get into the essence and methodology behind everything. The props were already pretty heavy. I wonder how heavy that much steel would weigh.

I did a little research on real cyclotrons and I wonder if the thing fans call the Bumper is suppose to be a magnet yoke. Even though it's fiction, I'm always fascinated by the inspiration and research that goes into making something believable. It's mostly over my head, but there's actual science and knowledge behind the parts and not just making it look cool. I'm falling down the rabbit hole.

Does anyone know what the grips on the wand would have been made of? Wood? Taken from an existing mass produced firearm?
That's great! You are welcome. I'm pretty obsessed about the in universe lore too. It's nice that there are others like me. Most people (understandably) care more about how to build the props accurately than guessing about details like power sources, etc. But for me trying to ground the GB world in reality is half the fun.

PS: The canonical weight of the proton pack I have no idea. Although in the mid 90's I remember various files doing the rounds on Usenet (remember that!), saying they were 55 pounds each.

Here are some other threads you may find interesting:

Evolution of the functionality of the proton pack with Stephen Dane's (creator of the wand) wand functionality concept drawings from 1983:

https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50332


Activation sequence of the pack and wand:

https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 8#p4962838

https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 6#p4903416


User manual for the front switches of the Ghost trap, NRADS etc.

https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44150

I was pleasantly surprised that Egon's Journal in the new Haslab proton pack actually references some of what is written in this post! I think I was the first person to come up with NRADS absorption rate so it made me feel kind of proud :) We even turned it into a video with Ghostbusters NW:





A plausible power source for the proton pack:

https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44617



Some musings on the videogame:

https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50429
Nighty80, GBKid1984 liked this
#4975980
Love this thread :)
I’d also add One time’s excellent post here: https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic. ... r#p4974351 which includes the basis for the cyclotron - as a kid I’d assumed a ‘real’ pack was built from re-purposed, real-world equipment like this… The reality was almost disappointing haha
The first pack I ever had/built (before the Kenner came out, whenever that was!) was a plyboard motherboard on a rucksack frame with all sorts of surplus electrical gear screwed on. The wand had a pencil torch, so it at least produced photons, if not protons😂
simpler times 😊
GBKid1984, One time liked this
#4976045
One time wrote: December 31st, 2022, 10:42 am I was pleasantly surprised that Egon's Journal in the new Haslab proton pack actually references some of what is written in this post! I think I was the first person to come up with NRADS absorption rate so it made me feel kind of proud :)
You should feel proud. The fans are just as important. I don't think Ghostbusters would still be in the minds of us 40 years later along with Indiana Jones and Back to the Future, among other things, if they didn't spark our imaginations. I'm looking forward to reading the journal.

The Proton Packs and other equipment are intoxicating pieces of design and engineering that draw the eye and want to be touched. There's a tactility and utility that invites you in and wants you to play with it. I'm glad there's someone else that wants to know, or imagine, how these tools function, even if it was never meant to be known or was thought of by the creators. All those links you provided are fantastic resources. Thanks.

There's so much more I want to know about how some things work or what they might do. Where is a good place to ask? PM or in this thread?

When I mentioned the weight of the packs, I was just thinking out loud. They must be very heavy and uncomfortable if they were real.
One time liked this
#4976085
GBKid1984 wrote: January 2nd, 2023, 12:37 am
One time wrote: December 31st, 2022, 10:42 am I was pleasantly surprised that Egon's Journal in the new Haslab proton pack actually references some of what is written in this post! I think I was the first person to come up with NRADS absorption rate so it made me feel kind of proud :)
You should feel proud. The fans are just as important. I don't think Ghostbusters would still be in the minds of us 40 years later along with Indiana Jones and Back to the Future, among other things, if they didn't spark our imaginations. I'm looking forward to reading the journal.

The Proton Packs and other equipment are intoxicating pieces of design and engineering that draw the eye and want to be touched. There's a tactility and utility that invites you in and wants you to play with it. I'm glad there's someone else that wants to know, or imagine, how these tools function, even if it was never meant to be known or was thought of by the creators. All those links you provided are fantastic resources. Thanks.

There's so much more I want to know about how some things work or what they might do. Where is a good place to ask? PM or in this thread?

When I mentioned the weight of the packs, I was just thinking out loud. They must be very heavy and uncomfortable if they were real.
Any more questions; I'd just post here, why not?

Yeah agree on the tactile aspect of the packs. The tactile nature of it adds to their believability.

Just some thoughts on the AF changes: I for one loved most of the Afterlife additions (bar 2 changes) they did for the packs. I feel they really thought them through. There is a symmetry to the design of the 1984 proton pack (when viewed head on). The ribbon cable on one side, the thrower on the other side. In silhouette it's designed to make the wearer look more heroic, wide shouldered, etc.

For Afterlife I think they really "improved" most (but not all) of it. I say improved in brackets because the improvements look as if they could as well have been from 1984. The neon yellow cord on the additional cable going into the cyclotron, the new curved cable going into the PPD behind it (hidden by the ribbon cable). The darker more aged ribbon cable, etc. They accented the locations the original pieces were meant to accent in 1983.

I'm 50-50 on the copper cables around the Clippard valve section. While I agree that area was the most "bare" and uninteresting part and could have used some more tactile detail, I'm not sure bare copper wires was the best solution. Makes it kind of interesting though.

The shotgun front grip was in my opinion a bad decision. It loses the mystery of the device when it had that manufactured sinister black front finger grip look. The original 1984 black finger grip, especially with the barrel retracted was mysterious. Is it a gun? Is it a light diode? What IS that? It's manufactured so it has to do something important. Making it a wooden shotgun grip lost that mysterious purposefulness.

Anyhow, all in all I don't mind the AF changes. They make the packs even more tacticle and inviting to tinker with than even the originals. And the front grip is easily replaced.

I'm also happy that the Hasbro pack (in a way) adds some functionality that I had always imagined the actual pack (if it existed) would have had. I'd imagined the wand and cyclotron to be actually tactile and noticable in terms of gyroscopic motion (i.e. resisting changes of direction) even when not firing. Turning on (Activate) the cyclotron you'd feel non linear increasing spin vibrations. Non linear as in exponentially increasing. These would be mirrored exactly in the wand.

So the wand would vibrate (slight gyro, i.e. resisting motion) in sync with the rotations of the cyclotron. Then when you fire it, these vibrations would almost instantaneously increase exponentially as the cyclotron speeds up particle annihilation. A massive recoil, like a waterhose but with immediate increasing synched vibration. Letting go of the trigger would settle it down in terms of synched vibrations as quickly as firing it would.

Anyhow, that's (kind of) how I'd imagined they would function from a tactile standpoint if they were real. It's interesting how the Hasbro pack (kind of, sorta) emulates that, minus the actual gyros ofcourse.

As you say it's interesting to think about these aspects (tactile dimension) that were never meant to be known or even thought of by the original creators (Aykroyd, Dane and Reitman). Thinking about this stuff is kind of like thinking it out for them after the fact.
Last edited by One time on January 3rd, 2023, 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
GBKid1984 liked this
#4976152
Almost everything on the Proton Pack is controlled via the wand, so there's no interactive parts (minus the crank) on the Pack until they retrofitted it in Afterlife. I have controversial and conflicting thoughts on Afterlife as a whole. I don't like the film or where they took it, and I'll leave it at that to avoid being burned at the stake. I do find Spengler's Afterlife Pack to be visually appealing if impractical and illogical. I know losing Harold was tough any way you cut it, and this is a little off-topic, but I imagined they would have streamlined and improved the packs for durability, repair, and increased production, because they probably would have franchised out at that point. The idea that they would neglect their tools hurts my soul, but since they made Egon go off on his own and fend for himself, I guess it will have to make sense that he improvised.

That's one heck of an imaginative theory you've got there. I like it a lot. They are sort of like electric cowboy lassos in how they wrangle ghosts. One of those dials could have been used to control a gyroscope.

1. What do you think they used for the pictographs (Activate, Intensify, Circuits, Arrow) on the wand? Both in-universe and prop makers. They look very clean. Stencil would require breaks, which it doesn't have, and it's too perfect to be done by hand. Strangely, the Pheobe Spengler Wand with the red circuit does look hand made and I don't know if that's on purpose or not.

2. How would they have made the labels elsewhere? Some look like thick metal and others look like standard stickers. I'm not sure there's any rhyme or reason for the material or why certain parts have stickers and other parts don't. I'm not sure how you could easily find custom made labels like that for a handful of Packs.

3. Why do you think the rational behind the vent/light is? You'd think you'd want to keep your equipment away from the elements as much as possible, but the top of the wand is exposed and has a random light inside. Not even a fine mesh like the N-Filter. Nothing is ever shown coming out of it. There's already a heatsink on the side, but that might just be to look cool and the main heat comes out the top.

4. All the knobs on the gun are never shown used. There's two on the left that look like they could dial something in, but never move. There's a knob next to the Clippard valve. And there's a knob on the right near the right side of the gun box that feels like it would click in increments.

5. What is the purpose of the wand extending? Someone said it was a safety feature. Some have said it's connected to the front handle twisting. Regardless, I'm bothered by the wires just hanging out of the gun ears. When I look at the wand, I get the impression there's some kind of gas in there or it's containing something, but there's a hole drilled in the tube for the wires, even in Afterlife. I would have thought that everything would be pressurized, or at least contained by having it go through the banjo valves, the red tube, and then into the glass tube. I don't know if they wanted to dress up its appearance or it was the only way they could practically wire up the prop. I'm not sure the LED bulb in Afterlife was suppose to be seen anymore than the flashbulbs were in the original. It looks cool, but I can't think of any reason logically why it would be there.

6. Hat lights. There's 4 "caps" on the wand. Two orange, and one milky white. Two cliplets, one white and one red. Besides the SLO-BLO light, none of them are labeled. They just turned on. No idea what they mean of if anyone has inferred what they mean from the films. On the Hero prop and Afterlife prop, the top of the gun box, the orange hat light looks like a piece of shaved plastic or wood. doesn't have the proper shape or texture of a real hat light, and it's sunken. Maybe the Afterlife crew just drew inspiration from the original prop. None of them seem to be buttons.

7. The switch on the end of the gun ear. No idea what it does. Sometimes it's black, other times it's red.

8. Is there any known documentation of the mechanics behind the wand twisting? There's two hex screws there, and that probably has some bearing on how it twists and locks into place. I'm looking forward to seeing how Mack's does it. Their drafts show a spring loaded mechanism going down the shaft that looks sexy.

9. Does the wand retract on its own? I've forgotten. I don't know what the ring around the tip would be for other than putting your finger on it, but someone on this board took issue with their hands going anywhere near an area with that much power. I'm not sure if it was radioactive, hot, or dangerous that it would be any better near their shoulder blade.
jle2199 liked this
#4976160
To answer a few of these,

1. The pictographs were dry rub labels on the props.

7. I think this was for the flash bulb in the end of the wand possibly? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

8. Pretty sure the twist was done pretty much the same way we do it now, with two handles tubes, one fixed and the outer one with the grip attached sliding round it. There's a third one inside those that has the pop mech too. I think an old thread by mburkit documented it from when he got to see inside the super hero wand.

9. The actual prop itself didn't retract on its own, which is presumably what he trigger tip helped with.
GBKid1984, jle2199 liked this
#4976162
GBKid1984 wrote: January 3rd, 2023, 4:15 pm Almost everything on the Proton Pack is controlled via the wand, so there's no interactive parts (minus the crank) on the Pack until they retrofitted it in Afterlife. I have controversial and conflicting thoughts on Afterlife as a whole. I don't like the film or where they took it, and I'll leave it at that to avoid being burned at the stake. I do find Spengler's Afterlife Pack to be visually appealing if impractical and illogical. I know losing Harold was tough any way you cut it, and this is a little off-topic, but I imagined they would have streamlined and improved the packs for durability, repair, and increased production, because they probably would have franchised out at that point. The idea that they would neglect their tools hurts my soul, but since they made Egon go off on his own and fend for himself, I guess it will have to make sense that he improvised.

That's one heck of an imaginative theory you've got there. I like it a lot. They are sort of like electric cowboy lassos in how they wrangle ghosts. One of those dials could have been used to control a gyroscope.

1. What do you think they used for the pictographs (Activate, Intensify, Circuits, Arrow) on the wand? Both in-universe and prop makers. They look very clean. Stencil would require breaks, which it doesn't have, and it's too perfect to be done by hand. Strangely, the Pheobe Spengler Wand with the red circuit does look hand made and I don't know if that's on purpose or not.

2. How would they have made the labels elsewhere? Some look like thick metal and others look like standard stickers. I'm not sure there's any rhyme or reason for the material or why certain parts have stickers and other parts don't. I'm not sure how you could easily find custom made labels like that for a handful of Packs.

3. Why do you think the rational behind the vent/light is? You'd think you'd want to keep your equipment away from the elements as much as possible, but the top of the wand is exposed and has a random light inside. Not even a fine mesh like the N-Filter. Nothing is ever shown coming out of it. There's already a heatsink on the side, but that might just be to look cool and the main heat comes out the top.

4. All the knobs on the gun are never shown used. There's two on the left that look like they could dial something in, but never move. There's a knob next to the Clippard valve. And there's a knob on the right near the right side of the gun box that feels like it would click in increments.

5. What is the purpose of the wand extending? Someone said it was a safety feature. Some have said it's connected to the front handle twisting. Regardless, I'm bothered by the wires just hanging out of the gun ears. When I look at the wand, I get the impression there's some kind of gas in there or it's containing something, but there's a hole drilled in the tube for the wires, even in Afterlife. I would have thought that everything would be pressurized, or at least contained by having it go through the banjo valves, the red tube, and then into the glass tube. I don't know if they wanted to dress up its appearance or it was the only way they could practically wire up the prop. I'm not sure the LED bulb in Afterlife was suppose to be seen anymore than the flashbulbs were in the original. It looks cool, but I can't think of any reason logically why it would be there.

6. Hat lights. There's 4 "caps" on the wand. Two orange, and one milky white. Two cliplets, one white and one red. Besides the SLO-BLO light, none of them are labeled. They just turned on. No idea what they mean of if anyone has inferred what they mean from the films. On the Hero prop and Afterlife prop, the top of the gun box, the orange hat light looks like a piece of shaved plastic or wood. doesn't have the proper shape or texture of a real hat light, and it's sunken. Maybe the Afterlife crew just drew inspiration from the original prop. None of them seem to be buttons.

7. The switch on the end of the gun ear. No idea what it does. Sometimes it's black, other times it's red.

8. Is there any known documentation of the mechanics behind the wand twisting? There's two hex screws there, and that probably has some bearing on how it twists and locks into place. I'm looking forward to seeing how Mack's does it. Their drafts show a spring loaded mechanism going down the shaft that looks sexy.

9. Does the wand retract on its own? I've forgotten. I don't know what the ring around the tip would be for other than putting your finger on it, but someone on this board took issue with their hands going anywhere near an area with that much power. I'm not sure if it was radioactive, hot, or dangerous that it would be any better near their shoulder blade.
Wow what a post. The detail you are going down to is quite amazing.

I am very happy someone thinks about this in even more detail than I do.

I think it's really too much to ponder about with text. I'd be up for discussing in over another medium like YT or video. Let me know if you are up for it.

But as for a meaningful response here:

In terms of discussing this stuff, GBfans (as far as I know) is the only place online that discusses this in this much detail. Yet the level of detail you go into, goes way beyond what people here have ever discussed. I am one of the few people here that loves deep diving into the "why does it work like that" aspect.

Most people here are prop builders who have built props based on certain established nexus points. I.e. a light kit that was made at some point that emulated screen used functionality, or discoveries on mechanical levers or gears that worked to emulate a mechanism seen on screen. Most answers from members who reply will be practical or mechanical answers on how the props work. "How" answers, not "Why" answers. Not "what is it meant to do" answers.

Very few people here have actually dived into the actual in-universe functionality as suggested by (for example) Stephen Dane's wand concept drawings of 1983. I'm sure many didn't even know these 1983 Dane concepts existed.

Where I think I'm diving pretty deep with my theories on the purpose of the tech the questions you seem to ask are like 6 levels deeper.

I'd be up for discussing this more in private and not over text as it's very hard to do so.

But as for some answers as to the why:

1. I assume the grip rotation / twisting mechanism was a prime or low level safety switch. With the grip pointing up it is not possible to hold the wand correctly. This may have been a low level safety switch for storage that disables all wand toggle switches (even when the pack Red (main) switch is on) which prevents the wand from being turned on if a toggle is accidentally flipped in storage (and the main pack switch was left on). The extending barrel would be a final (secondary) safety switch. A portable nuclear accelerator would need many safety switches.

2. The little button on the barrel "ears" is never actually mentioned in the canon as far as I know. It is never seen depressed in the movies. Although the Hasbro wand has it change the "video game" functions. If we were to suppose it has an in universe use my guess would be that it enables the "containment" frequency or functionality of the stream when already fired with the main intensify button. I.e. it enables the "contain" aspect of the proton stream.
GBKid1984 liked this
#4976297
What do you mean by private? How would we communicate over YouTube? Just you talking? I'm sorry, I don't understand.

If it's too complicated, I don't mind if you don't go into detail. I'm accepting that some answers are we don't know/it's a movie. Part of this was an exercise to just get in the head of ethos.

It's part of some preproduction/musings on if I want to tackle a build and how much I'd want to be accurate versus personal. It's also just fun to think about. I was expecting a bit more from the Haslab thing, and just don't know if it's worth the time, effort, and money to improve them, so I was contemplating just investing in a custom build.

Isn't it the orange hat light on the Hasbro wand that changes the effect? The mechanical switch is just inaccurately shaped plastic that looks more like the end of a bolt with a nut on it then the switch.

tobycj: You wouldn't happen to have a link to that thread, would you? I'll see if I can find it in search.
Last edited by GBKid1984 on January 8th, 2023, 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4976850
tobycj wrote: January 6th, 2023, 2:35 am
GBKid1984 wrote: January 5th, 2023, 9:28 pm tobycj: You wouldn't happen to have a link to that thread, would you? I'll see if I can find it in search.
I had a quick rummage, and this thread is what you're after.
Thank you so much, tobycj. You've been very helpful and I appreciate it. Does this website have a DIY section or a place where there's a collection of common tips and tricks for builds, or is it just individual builders?
#4976855
GBKid1984 wrote: January 13th, 2023, 9:18 pm
tobycj wrote: January 6th, 2023, 2:35 am

I had a quick rummage, and this thread is what you're after.
Thank you so much, tobycj. You've been very helpful and I appreciate it. Does this website have a DIY section or a place where there's a collection of common tips and tricks for builds, or is it just individual builders?
https://www.gbfans.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28621

This is one on the pinned threads in this forum, and has a lot of useful links. Unfortunately since the rise of Facebook the forums don't get used so much, so almost all of these are older threads, and quite often the photos are no longer hosted, but it's certainly a good start.
GBKid1984 liked this
#4977253
GBKid1984 wrote: January 5th, 2023, 9:28 pm What do you mean by private? How would we communicate over YouTube? Just you talking? I'm sorry, I don't understand.

If it's too complicated, I don't mind if you don't go into detail. I'm accepting that some answers are we don't know/it's a movie. Part of this was an exercise to just get in the head of ethos.

It's part of some preproduction/musings on if I want to tackle a build and how much I'd want to be accurate versus personal. It's also just fun to think about. I was expecting a bit more from the Haslab thing, and just don't know if it's worth the time, effort, and money to improve them, so I was contemplating just investing in a custom build.

Isn't it the orange hat light on the Hasbro wand that changes the effect? The mechanical switch is just inaccurately shaped plastic that looks more like the end of a bolt with a nut on it then the switch.

tobycj: You wouldn't happen to have a link to that thread, would you? I'll see if I can find it in search.
Hi, I meant youtube back and forth videos or even a zoom call. Would be cool to discuss this all with like minded folks.

Yeah I meant the orange button on the wand, not the switch infrotn of it.

WHat thread do you mean? Remind me? So many threads on here I've lost count long ago :)
#4978952
One time wrote: December 30th, 2022, 10:58 am Due to the welding I'd say thin lined steel plates 1.5-2.0mm thick, leaning more towards 2.0mm. Steel as opposed to aluminum because aluminum is much more difficult to weld (TIG or MIG), esp in 1983.
I thought the hero packs had welded aluminum parts on them, though? It wouldn't be that hard for Egon to have figured it out if they actually did it for the props, right?
One time wrote: December 30th, 2022, 10:58 am Areas lined with thicker radiation shielding components like the cyclotron housing, maybe lead lined. Or due to the extreme wight of lead it may be a steel alloy with lead inclusions. Or really any other steel alloy that will stop α-radiation β- radiation and gamma & X-rays.
I always figured they cast the parts they needed out of whatever metal they decided to use, which would explain why it looks like cast metal. I don't think they would have used lead, maybe a lead (or maybe tin or copper? brass??) lining, but I feel like that might have been too involved at that point :\ There was also something I read once about in the comics, Egon had a cover he removed from, I believe, the Cyclotron at one point because it was causing cancer.
One time wrote: December 30th, 2022, 10:58 am For some reason I always thought the "fuel isotope" (Curium-246?) or where the fuel goes, would be a compartment accessed from behind the large square sticker under the crank knob (the warning label).
I think that is what the Fill Tube is for...
#4978954
jle2199 wrote: February 17th, 2023, 7:27 pm
One time wrote: December 30th, 2022, 10:58 am Due to the welding I'd say thin lined steel plates 1.5-2.0mm thick, leaning more towards 2.0mm. Steel as opposed to aluminum because aluminum is much more difficult to weld (TIG or MIG), esp in 1983.
I thought the hero packs had welded aluminum parts on them, though? It wouldn't be that hard for Egon to have figured it out if they actually did it for the props, right?
One time wrote: December 30th, 2022, 10:58 am Areas lined with thicker radiation shielding components like the cyclotron housing, maybe lead lined. Or due to the extreme wight of lead it may be a steel alloy with lead inclusions. Or really any other steel alloy that will stop α-radiation β- radiation and gamma & X-rays.
I always figured they cast the parts they needed out of whatever metal they decided to use, which would explain why it looks like cast metal. I don't think they would have used lead, maybe a lead (or maybe tin or copper? brass??) lining, but I feel like that might have been too involved at that point :\ There was also something I read once about in the comics, Egon had a cover he removed from, I believe, the Cyclotron at one point because it was causing cancer.
One time wrote: December 30th, 2022, 10:58 am For some reason I always thought the "fuel isotope" (Curium-246?) or where the fuel goes, would be a compartment accessed from behind the large square sticker under the crank knob (the warning label).
I think that is what the Fill Tube is for...
Yeah, in the (I think) 5th issue of the IDW series, the "cooling covers" apparently presented a cancer risk, according to Egon. Also agreed on the the tube being the location for the fuel.
#4978978
For those saying they'd be made out of metal, especially iron or steel, I get the impulse as the packs clearly weather silver.

But how would the Ghostbusters carry them? These guys were clearly not in shape, heavy smokers, guys who ate junk food -- probably in worse shape than the actors playing the characters as I doubt they ate junk food as much as the characters did when offscreen and the flight suits seem almost designed to make them appear less fit.

And the actors struggled with the actual packs, never mind packs that would be canonically much heavier.

For that matter, I don't think ALICE frames would hold a much heavier pack, unless you also assume that the frames themselves weren't actually ALICE frames but steel lookalikes.
#4978984
LeoCor Replicas wrote: February 17th, 2023, 8:58 pm Yeah, in the (I think) 5th issue of the IDW series, the "cooling covers" apparently presented a cancer risk, according to Egon. Also agreed on the the tube being the location for the fuel.
Correct. Right near the end before they breach the field around the park.

TobinsGuide wrote: February 18th, 2023, 7:18 pm For that matter, I don't think ALICE frames would hold a much heavier pack, unless you also assume that the frames themselves weren't actually ALICE frames but steel lookalikes.
Original ALICE frames were made to hold how much - 50, 70, 100 pounds? There was only a few times when a pack's weight was stated in-universe by a character other than Peter mentioning the one Rookie wears is 100 pounds - I think at the start of the cemetery level when they're boosting him over the gate. But that was the experimental pack with all the upgrades on it and not the standard classic pack. Then in the IDW comics on Cover B and page 5 of Ghostbusters Year One Issue #1, in the New York Times Monday classifieds, the Ghostbusters ad asks if you can carry 70 pounds while on the run.
#4979010
If it's 70-100 lbs, I definitely think we can rule out cast iron and I'm skeptical it can be steel. It's probably aluminum. The actual mechanical parts of the pack add enough weight.

I mean, the Haslab pack is 20 pounds or so with an ALICE frame? And fan built packs with more mechanical parts, an aluminum motherboard plate and a fiberglass shell are 40-50 pounds?

I don't think the pack itself can be made of anything too much heavier.

Also, in addition to the OG Ghostbusters being out of shape compared to most action heroes, Phoebe Spengler was 12 in Afterlife so a 12 year-old girl who isn't especially fit would need to be able to lift and carry the pack on her pack.

A quick bit of Googling says McKenna Grace was 88 pounds in Afterlife. And the Ghostbusters themselves hover around 250 pounds each (a bit more in recent years, as much as 280) with Ramis being around 200 in his prime. In general, for workplace safety, lifting limits are around 25% to 30% of someone's weight. Obviously, fit people can and do lift more than their bodyweight in exercise but we're talking a "moving boxes around an office" level of safety.

So we can estimate the maximum "safe" size for a pack as a workplace item as 84 pounds and the minimum as 22. I think Afterlife would suggest it's on the low side of the middle of that range. The video game would suggest it's on the higher end. Either way, I think it probably has to be something like aluminum.
#4982829
TobinsGuide wrote: February 19th, 2023, 4:16 pm If it's 70-100 lbs, I definitely think we can rule out cast iron and I'm skeptical it can be steel. It's probably aluminum. The actual mechanical parts of the pack add enough weight.

I mean, the Haslab pack is 20 pounds or so with an ALICE frame? And fan built packs with more mechanical parts, an aluminum motherboard plate and a fiberglass shell are 40-50 pounds?

I don't think the pack itself can be made of anything too much heavier.

...

So we can estimate the maximum "safe" size for a pack as a workplace item as 84 pounds and the minimum as 22. I think Afterlife would suggest it's on the low side of the middle of that range. The video game would suggest it's on the higher end. Either way, I think it probably has to be something like aluminum.
Magnesium is another material that I could fully see them making parts from that would be castable and light, as well as reflective enough.

Something like the Apollo heat shielding wouldn't have been out of Egon's territory, but the lead of the team that originally developed that heat shield later stated that he'd fail a student for coming up with such a stupid idea, and it was also ceramic, so it's probably out.
#4982832
Ha! I knew I wasn't the only one who thought about this stuff too.

I figure the power cell might be a radium 226 source. Has approximately a 1000 year half life. Can be easily shielded with about 2cm of lead around the source. (My HVL math is a bit rusty so I rounded up). This would just be for the power supply needed for the pack, though. I would figure the actual proton streams would be created like a proton therapy machine using hydrogen gas as the source for the protons spun through the cyclotron and guided up the hose with bending magnets to the thrower and the beamline inside. (Though, in todays technology,
a proton therapy machine is huge, but Egon was a genius and ... movies, so..)

Those dials on the wand probably act like control mechanism for the cyclotron's speed, which control the penetrating power of the proton stream. The wand would also have to inject something like a tracer for the user to know where the stream is going because proton beams are invisible. I assume the red tube on the end of the wand probably dumps in that tracer causing a reaction that glows.(Unsure whatthay chemical might be though) No linare accelerators I have use have kickback, but they all weigh tons, so not sure what would happen if it was less than 100 pounds in you hands. The cyclotron wouldn't change speed unless the rate of spin has to be adjusted for beam strength, so the overheating would probably only happen around the 85%+ power settings to keep the pack from exploding.

I agree that the pop mechanism, barrel rotation and switches would be safety features. My radiation physics for shielding calculations is very rusty, so I am not quite sure what would be needed to line the cyclotron chamber, but the rest of the pack could be aluminum, plastic, or whatever Egon could find to cobble the pack together.

Just my thoughts though. Sci-fi stuff is always fun to speculate on.
#4982912
jle2199 wrote: May 29th, 2023, 4:24 am
TobinsGuide wrote: February 19th, 2023, 4:16 pm If it's 70-100 lbs, I definitely think we can rule out cast iron and I'm skeptical it can be steel. It's probably aluminum. The actual mechanical parts of the pack add enough weight.

I mean, the Haslab pack is 20 pounds or so with an ALICE frame? And fan built packs with more mechanical parts, an aluminum motherboard plate and a fiberglass shell are 40-50 pounds?

I don't think the pack itself can be made of anything too much heavier.

...

So we can estimate the maximum "safe" size for a pack as a workplace item as 84 pounds and the minimum as 22. I think Afterlife would suggest it's on the low side of the middle of that range. The video game would suggest it's on the higher end. Either way, I think it probably has to be something like aluminum.
Magnesium is another material that I could fully see them making parts from that would be castable and light, as well as reflective enough.

Something like the Apollo heat shielding wouldn't have been out of Egon's territory, but the lead of the team that originally developed that heat shield later stated that he'd fail a student for coming up with such a stupid idea, and it was also ceramic, so it's probably out.
What about the weld marks? How are you going to weld magnesium? Esp in 1983? Same goes for aluminium. TIG welding in 1983 I don't see it as being done.

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