Discuss the upcoming 4th movie, Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire to be released in March 2024.
#4978432
This may be superfluous but I recently realised the difference between 55 Central Park West (made with selenium girders)
and the Shandor Temple in Summerville (where the selenium was mined).

Could it be that 55 CPW was where the destructor manifested (Gozer was not trapped in GB1, only the destructor form was destroyed).

At 55CPW the ghostbusters didn't destroy Gozer. The streams went right through it. It seemed immune to their streams and just vanished when it wanted. Almost as if it wasn't really there.

Only the destructor form was real in NYC.

The Gozer Temple in Summerville was where Gozer actually manifested.

I hadn't thought of this before.

Maybe that's why it had different colored eyes in GB1 and in Afterlife. In any case, weird how it needs the terror dogs in both instances.
#4978438
I thought Gozer was corporeal in both cases. Just at 550 CPW, as soon as Gozer arrived, they issued a direct demand to a god and directly attacked it so it moved straight to discorporating itself and demanding a Destructor Form be chosen. (think what happens if you poke a wild bear with a stick vs. hiding behind a rock and observing it) If the Ghostbusters didn't show up right when Zuul and Vinz summoned it, I'm sure Gozer would have "chilled" like we saw in the Summerville temple. In Summerville, they took Zuul so Gozer was forced to chase them and release Zuul in order to be able to continue with its ritual (couldn't manifest a Destructor Form at half strength right?) and I would guess after killing everyone in spite, discorporate and demand someone in the town choose a Destructor Form but then one thing after another happened - the Ghostbusters arrived, Phoebe grabbed the pack, Gozer got wrangled in 4 streams (and thus unable to do what it did in GB1), and trapped.
deadderek liked this
#4978453
RichardLess wrote: January 13th, 2023, 12:14 pm
JonXCTrack wrote: January 13th, 2023, 9:59 am

Fun fact - Harold Ramis was Judd Apatow's mentor.
Where did you get this from?

Gary Shandling was Judd Apatow’s mentor. In highschool Apatow scored an interview Harold Ramis for his highscool newspaper, but Ramis wasn’t his mentor.
"Harold Ramis did much more than just make people laugh. He made us root for the underdog, question authority, and identify with outsiders. Ramis has touched countless fans and even was a mentor for current comedy writer Judd Apatow."

https://elderhsquill.org/3415/arts-ente ... -laughter/

"Ramis' comedies were often wild, silly and tilting toward anarchy, but they also were cerebral and iconoclastic, with the filmmaker heeding the Second City edict to work at the top of one's intelligence. This combination of smart and gut-bustingly funny led a generation of comedic actors and filmmakers — including Judd Apatow ("The 40 Year Old Virgin," "Knocked Up"), Jay Roach ("Meet the Parents," the "Austin Powers" movies), Peter Farrelly ("There's Something About Mary," "Dumb and Dumber"), Jake Kasdan ("Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story," "Orange County," both of which featured Ramis in small roles) and Adam Sandler (who starred in his own wacky golf comedy, "Happy Gilmore") — to cite him as a key inspiration."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertai ... story.html
#4978492
mrmichaelt wrote: February 5th, 2023, 5:53 pm I thought Gozer was corporeal in both cases. Just at 550 CPW, as soon as Gozer arrived, they issued a direct demand to a god and directly attacked it so it moved straight to discorporating itself and demanding a Destructor Form be chosen. (think what happens if you poke a wild bear with a stick vs. hiding behind a rock and observing it) If the Ghostbusters didn't show up right when Zuul and Vinz summoned it, I'm sure Gozer would have "chilled" like we saw in the Summerville temple. In Summerville, they took Zuul so Gozer was forced to chase them and release Zuul in order to be able to continue with its ritual (couldn't manifest a Destructor Form at half strength right?) and I would guess after killing everyone in spite, discorporate and demand someone in the town choose a Destructor Form but then one thing after another happened - the Ghostbusters arrived, Phoebe grabbed the pack, Gozer got wrangled in 4 streams (and thus unable to do what it did in GB1), and trapped.
I believed the minipufts were Gozer trying to manifest the destructor form, but just couldn't for whatever reason.

PS - If I was destined to remain a giant marshmallow man on that planet; I probably wouldn't manifest that way either if I could avoid it.
#4978507
joezlo wrote: February 7th, 2023, 10:14 am I believed the minipufts were Gozer trying to manifest the destructor form, but just couldn't for whatever reason.

PS - If I was destined to remain a giant marshmallow man on that planet; I probably wouldn't manifest that way either if I could avoid it.
I could see that. For me, I thought they were just emanations influenced from Vinz's physical presence in the Wal-Mart. Since he was there physically, his P.K.E. animated a familiar object. And once he was trapped, the remaining Minis blew up without his presence. Like in the first movie, except since Zuul was on the other side of the portal, there were unstable emanations that simply led to the eggs cooking themselves.

But to steer back towards this sequel, I hope we see different varieties of entities. Like in retrospect, we've had 2 movies with gods (Gozer, Vinz, Zuul) and 2 movies with human ghosts that take up power comparable to a god (Vigo and Rowan). It would pretty cool to see them deal with others like corporeal beings like the various golems in The Video Game. Though I guess it all depends on the locale. Like some of suspect it will be just whatevers in the Containment Unit being freed so just ghosts.
Kingpin, robbritton liked this
#4978512
I have a feeling (or rather think it logical) that Firehouse will move from the more narrow (Spengler family based) view to a more broad concept in terms of feel.

That scene at the end of GB1 in front of 55CPW, with all the religions of the world praying (Punks, Muslims, Christian nuns, Jewish rabbi's), with Alessi "Savin' the world" playing in the background. It was a powerful image that isn't often mentioned in GB appreciation forums.

I think it would be an interesting angle to include in Firehouse seeing as it could have a broader thematic reach than AF.
Kingpin, robbritton liked this
#4978583
joezlo wrote: February 7th, 2023, 10:14 am I believed the minipufts were Gozer trying to manifest the destructor form, but just couldn't for whatever reason.

PS - If I was destined to remain a giant marshmallow man on that planet; I probably wouldn't manifest that way either if I could avoid it.
I remember reading that they had several outlines and Sony asked different writers to tackle the ideas and make a story out of them, one of them was that Gozer's followers gathered a lot of the marshmallow remains from "The Manhattan Crossrip" and stored them in Summerville in the factory where we see Muncher. There's "drippage" from one of the big tanks and the drops turn into little marshmallow men.

Whether or not any of that was true, it does make a lot more sense than what we got.
#4978605
One time wrote: February 5th, 2023, 4:51 pm At 55CPW the ghostbusters didn't destroy Gozer. The streams went right through it. It seemed immune to their streams and just vanished when it wanted. Almost as if it wasn't really there.
If there was a difference, then I think it was in Gozer's composition... Rather than the Selenium.

In Summerville, Gozer's form in our world was powered by (amongst others) the ghosts of the miners who jumped down the shaft (and probably members of Shandor's cult that willingly sacrificed themselves). That seems a plausible explanation for why the beams worked on it in 2021, versus in 1984.
#4978608
True, in GB1, the main highlight the the NY temple was the antennae designed to pull in ghosts. But in AL, the highlight was the sacrificial pit.

Interestingly, in 2 of the later GB1 drafts, that scene reads "He stands there calmly and absorbs the force of the streams. There is a brilliant pink flash and Gozer disappears." In the early August one with it looking like Robert Young, Gozer took a stream to the face and disappeared.
#4978616
Kingpin wrote: February 8th, 2023, 6:17 pm Could it be that it was intended for the original film to show the beams hitting, but having no effect on Gozer... But the intended visual got lost in communication with the effects department?
Yeah, based on the anecdotes over the years, BOSS were down to wire and finished this FX shot with all the hundreds others to make the deadline. Though I'm sure Aykroyd has a succinct breakdown of what's happening in that scene. Something to ask him at the next Crystal Head Vodka signing or if/when he's at the next GB-related Fest at the Sony lot.
robbritton liked this
#4978635
Chicken, He Clucked wrote:Am I right in thinking if they're on set in London there won't be much in the way of leaks? I guess news around this sequel will remain sparse until Summer when we get a teaser and promotion begins?
That's the hope for production, but I'm sure there will be leaks no matter what. If the filming is all interior filming at a studio, then yeah, it should in theory lead to way less leaks than when Afterlife was filming.
#4978646
Davideverona wrote: February 9th, 2023, 4:00 am At least we don't have to wait 2 years and a half from teaser to the release
*laughs in Covid-23 variant*
#4978756
Kingpin wrote: February 8th, 2023, 4:41 pm
One time wrote: February 5th, 2023, 4:51 pm At 55CPW the ghostbusters didn't destroy Gozer. The streams went right through it. It seemed immune to their streams and just vanished when it wanted. Almost as if it wasn't really there.
If there was a difference, then I think it was in Gozer's composition... Rather than the Selenium.

In Summerville, Gozer's form in our world was powered by (amongst others) the ghosts of the miners who jumped down the shaft (and probably members of Shandor's cult that willingly sacrificed themselves). That seems a plausible explanation for why the beams worked on it in 2021, versus in 1984.
I’ve read this a couple times now. I’m trying to make sense of it. So beams work in 2021 because Gozer is powered by Ghost of Miners. Why would that make a difference tho?

The beams went thru Gozer in GB84 cause that’s what it wanted to have happen, no? She was toying with them, right? In GB84 she wanted to complete the ritual. Seemed to me she was toying with them here too but in a different way but also not concerned at all with the ritual.

I’ve never heard of this “Gozer is powered by X” theory tho. Is that something in one of the games? Or comics? I just always thought…Gozer is Gozer. She’s powered by…being a god. That’s what I thought anyways.
#4978785
RichardLess wrote: February 11th, 2023, 10:08 pm I’ve read this a couple times now. I’m trying to make sense of it. So beams work in 2021 because Gozer is powered by Ghost of Miners. Why would that make a difference tho?
(This may ramble, I was putting it into words on-and-off all afternoon).

As we observe during the battle with Gozer in 1984, the particle streams don't latch onto Gozer at all.
Based on this we can formulate the following speculations:

•Gozer is toying with the Ghostbusters.
•Or Gozer's "flat top" manifestation doesn't correspond to the same ionization rate that earth-bound ghosts correspond to, making the proton streams useless against it (Gozer's Stay Puft manifestation however does correspond to the ionization rate of earth-bound ghosts, making it vulnerable to the particle streams)
•Or that Gozer's "flat top" manifestation isn't actually physical, but more of a mental projection.

In 2021 however, we can observe the proton stream interacting with Gozer, both when Gozer's batting 500 with Zuul trapped, and also when it's at 100% manifestation again with Zuul free. And when fully manifested, Gozer is still caught in the three streams being fired by Ray, Peter and Winston, even with advance warning.
Based on this we can formulate the following speculations:
•Gozer did have the power to shrug off the particle streams in 1984, but doesn't have that power now in 2021.
•Or Gozer didn't have the power to shrug off the particle streams.
•Or Gozer's flat-top form is much more physical in its returning manifestation in 2021 than in it's 1984 manifestation.

So, what's different about Gozer's manifestation in 2021 versus 1984? Why does Gozer's "flat top" manifestation seem more physical and vulnerable in 2021 than in 1984?

I believe it's down to what was done in the mine to bring Gozer to our world versus what was done at the Shandor Building in New York.

While Egon details that bizarre rituals were conducted by Shandor and his cult on 550 Central Park West's roof, and that Shandor himself indulged in unnecessary surgical operations, there's no mention in the original film of any ritual sacrifice involved in those rituals (despite the sacrificial altar-looking adornment on the roof)... Whereas in 2021, Podcast specifically mentions how the miners leapt to their deaths in the pit in the mine. The dialogue between the kids when they're viewing the chamber in the mine and it's empty wall graves may also infer that Shandor's followers also contributed towards the sacrifices in the mine.

Later, when we see the pit in the mine becoming active, we can see a whole multitude of humanoid shapes which start to coalesce into Gozer's flat top form. When Vinz disables the sentry Packs, we see this coalescence reach completion and become Gozer's flat-top form.

Finally, when Gozer is defeated, we see a bunch of humanoid forms being ripped out of it's flat-top form.
Based on this, we can formulate the following speculation:
•In 2021, Gozer's manifestation appears to need three components: Zuul, Vinz, and the human sacrifices.
•The rituals performed in Oklahoma differed drastically from Shandor's efforts in New York.

I think ultimately, the reason why the guys were able to get a hold of Gozer this time versus 1984 was because the ghosts of the sacrificial victims gave them an edge they didn't have back in 1984: the sacrifical ghosts gave Gozer an achille's heel, a fatal flaw that the Ghostbusters could exploit because... Unlike most prior doomed civilisations that encountered Gozer, the Ghostbusters and the Spenglers had equipment that could capture paranormal entities/ghosts with a known ionization rate.

It's kinda like if you made a sculpture of clay, with bits of ferrous metal buried in it, and then turned on a MRI. The MRI would attract the ferrous metal, potentially damaging the clay sculpture.

TL:DR:
Having the sacrificial ghosts as part of the rituals that drove the 2021 re-manifestation made Gozer vulnerable to the particle streams.

I hope that makes sense.
#4978797
Kingpin wrote: February 12th, 2023, 10:02 am
RichardLess wrote: February 11th, 2023, 10:08 pm I’ve read this a couple times now. I’m trying to make sense of it. So beams work in 2021 because Gozer is powered by Ghost of Miners. Why would that make a difference tho?
(This may ramble, I was putting it into words on-and-off all afternoon).

As we observe during the battle with Gozer in 1984, the particle streams don't latch onto Gozer at all.
Based on this we can formulate the following speculations:

•Gozer is toying with the Ghostbusters.
•Or Gozer's "flat top" manifestation doesn't correspond to the same ionization rate that earth-bound ghosts correspond to, making the proton streams useless against it (Gozer's Stay Puft manifestation however does correspond to the ionization rate of earth-bound ghosts, making it vulnerable to the particle streams)
•Or that Gozer's "flat top" manifestation isn't actually physical, but more of a mental projection.

In 2021 however, we can observe the proton stream interacting with Gozer, both when Gozer's batting 500 with Zuul trapped, and also when it's at 100% manifestation again with Zuul free. And when fully manifested, Gozer is still caught in the three streams being fired by Ray, Peter and Winston, even with advance warning.
Based on this we can formulate the following speculations:
•Gozer did have the power to shrug off the particle streams in 1984, but doesn't have that power now in 2021.
•Or Gozer didn't have the power to shrug off the particle streams.
•Or Gozer's flat-top form is much more physical in its returning manifestation in 2021 than in it's 1984 manifestation.

So, what's different about Gozer's manifestation in 2021 versus 1984? Why does Gozer's "flat top" manifestation seem more physical and vulnerable in 2021 than in 1984?

I believe it's down to what was done in the mine to bring Gozer to our world versus what was done at the Shandor Building in New York.

While Egon details that bizarre rituals were conducted by Shandor and his cult on 550 Central Park West's roof, and that Shandor himself indulged in unnecessary surgical operations, there's no mention in the original film of any ritual sacrifice involved in those rituals (despite the sacrificial altar-looking adornment on the roof)... Whereas in 2021, Podcast specifically mentions how the miners leapt to their deaths in the pit in the mine. The dialogue between the kids when they're viewing the chamber in the mine and it's empty wall graves may also infer that Shandor's followers also contributed towards the sacrifices in the mine.

Later, when we see the pit in the mine becoming active, we can see a whole multitude of humanoid shapes which start to coalesce into Gozer's flat top form. When Vinz disables the sentry Packs, we see this coalescence reach completion and become Gozer's flat-top form.

Finally, when Gozer is defeated, we see a bunch of humanoid forms being ripped out of it's flat-top form.
Based on this, we can formulate the following speculation:
•In 2021, Gozer's manifestation appears to need three components: Zuul, Vinz, and the human sacrifices.
•The rituals performed in Oklahoma differed drastically from Shandor's efforts in New York.

I think ultimately, the reason why the guys were able to get a hold of Gozer this time versus 1984 was because the ghosts of the sacrificial victims gave them an edge they didn't have back in 1984: the sacrifical ghosts gave Gozer an achille's heel, a fatal flaw that the Ghostbusters could exploit because... Unlike most prior doomed civilisations that encountered Gozer, the Ghostbusters and the Spenglers had equipment that could capture paranormal entities/ghosts with a known ionization rate.

It's kinda like if you made a sculpture of clay, with bits of ferrous metal buried in it, and then turned on a MRI. The MRI would attract the ferrous metal, potentially damaging the clay sculpture.

TL:DR:
Having the sacrificial ghosts as part of the rituals that drove the 2021 re-manifestation made Gozer vulnerable to the particle streams.

I hope that makes sense.
Ok I got ya. So it’s like…because the beams can capture regular ghosts and the miners Suicide would form regular ghosts and those ghosts(or PKE energy) form part of Gozer it gives something for the beams to latch onto? Right ok. I can buy that.

When reading that all I could think of was how Jason & Gil talked about how they come up with the actions scenes while playing with toys lol

Honestly that was never anything that bothered me about the movie. Her catching the beams was just her using her powers in a different way. I would’ve liked to have seen Gozer do some cool new power stuff.

In the original film she does that cool ass flip(which still looks awesome in 2023. Ivan Reitman was working on a whole other level in that movie. The shot of her feet landing with the electricity? It’s great. And they even show her in the air arcing over them) it would’ve been nice to see her dodging the beams in like a matrix sort of way. Like how the agents dodge bullets. Something akin to that but different enough. Or since they are on a farm she raises her hands up and the bones of dead cows and chickens and whatever start to form something I’ve always wanted to see. A giant Slor!
#4978839
Kingpin wrote:
RichardLess wrote: February 11th, 2023, 10:08 pm I’ve read this a couple times now. I’m trying to make sense of it. So beams work in 2021 because Gozer is powered by Ghost of Miners. Why would that make a difference tho?
(This may ramble, I was putting it into words on-and-off all afternoon).

As we observe during the battle with Gozer in 1984, the particle streams don't latch onto Gozer at all.
Based on this we can formulate the following speculations:

•Gozer is toying with the Ghostbusters.
•Or Gozer's "flat top" manifestation doesn't correspond to the same ionization rate that earth-bound ghosts correspond to, making the proton streams useless against it (Gozer's Stay Puft manifestation however does correspond to the ionization rate of earth-bound ghosts, making it vulnerable to the particle streams)
•Or that Gozer's "flat top" manifestation isn't actually physical, but more of a mental projection.

In 2021 however, we can observe the proton stream interacting with Gozer, both when Gozer's batting 500 with Zuul trapped, and also when it's at 100% manifestation again with Zuul free. And when fully manifested, Gozer is still caught in the three streams being fired by Ray, Peter and Winston, even with advance warning.
Based on this we can formulate the following speculations:
•Gozer did have the power to shrug off the particle streams in 1984, but doesn't have that power now in 2021.
•Or Gozer didn't have the power to shrug off the particle streams.
•Or Gozer's flat-top form is much more physical in its returning manifestation in 2021 than in it's 1984 manifestation.

So, what's different about Gozer's manifestation in 2021 versus 1984? Why does Gozer's "flat top" manifestation seem more physical and vulnerable in 2021 than in 1984?

I believe it's down to what was done in the mine to bring Gozer to our world versus what was done at the Shandor Building in New York.

While Egon details that bizarre rituals were conducted by Shandor and his cult on 550 Central Park West's roof, and that Shandor himself indulged in unnecessary surgical operations, there's no mention in the original film of any ritual sacrifice involved in those rituals (despite the sacrificial altar-looking adornment on the roof)... Whereas in 2021, Podcast specifically mentions how the miners leapt to their deaths in the pit in the mine. The dialogue between the kids when they're viewing the chamber in the mine and it's empty wall graves may also infer that Shandor's followers also contributed towards the sacrifices in the mine.

Later, when we see the pit in the mine becoming active, we can see a whole multitude of humanoid shapes which start to coalesce into Gozer's flat top form. When Vinz disables the sentry Packs, we see this coalescence reach completion and become Gozer's flat-top form.

Finally, when Gozer is defeated, we see a bunch of humanoid forms being ripped out of it's flat-top form.
Based on this, we can formulate the following speculation:
•In 2021, Gozer's manifestation appears to need three components: Zuul, Vinz, and the human sacrifices.
•The rituals performed in Oklahoma differed drastically from Shandor's efforts in New York.

I think ultimately, the reason why the guys were able to get a hold of Gozer this time versus 1984 was because the ghosts of the sacrificial victims gave them an edge they didn't have back in 1984: the sacrifical ghosts gave Gozer an achille's heel, a fatal flaw that the Ghostbusters could exploit because... Unlike most prior doomed civilisations that encountered Gozer, the Ghostbusters and the Spenglers had equipment that could capture paranormal entities/ghosts with a known ionization rate.

It's kinda like if you made a sculpture of clay, with bits of ferrous metal buried in it, and then turned on a MRI. The MRI would attract the ferrous metal, potentially damaging the clay sculpture.

TL:DR:
Having the sacrificial ghosts as part of the rituals that drove the 2021 re-manifestation made Gozer vulnerable to the particle streams.

I hope that makes sense.
I think it has to do with the "Spengler Pack." Egon modified the proton pack for this specific purpose. Unfortunately, he never got to complete it. He set up the sentry proton wands inside of the cave to keep the supernatural energy in the pit at bay until he could finish the updated proton pack, but in doing so, a terror dog escaped and attacked him.

When Lucky fires the stream at Gozer (well, half of Gozer anyway), the effects of the stream were enough to alter Gozer's structure, making her more ethereal. Then, when the OGBs show up, their proton streams are now able to latch onto Gozer. It also makes Gozer able to be trapped, whereas Gozer was not in 1984. That's my theory anyway.
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