#4976307
jonogunn wrote: January 5th, 2023, 8:30 pm You are amazing brother.

I plan to also use my second Hasbro wand for my custom build proton pack. Am I able to do the wand keep alive/speaker&amp mode on it's own without the haslab pack?
Yes you can. It is all on the wand side, the pack is not required.
jonogunn liked this
#4976309
The Joker Buster wrote: January 5th, 2023, 11:37 pm
gpstar wrote: January 5th, 2023, 3:36 pm

It won’t work like that. You will need to open the wand.

A constant power draw will not keep the pack going, all a constant draw will do is restart the pack after the shutdown timer expires and you will lose the ability to operate the pack from the wand. Then there is the wand 30 second shutdown timer to deal with which also shuts the pack off when the wand shuts down.

For the pack to keep running:
You need to draw the voltage down from the pack U7 4.33 V connector (that goes to the wand) down below 4.20 V and or back above that to reset the pack reset timer. The pack will turn on when the voltage drops down below 4.30 V. When the voltage is back over 4.30 V then the pack shuts down.

For the wand to keep running:
A simple fix of sending some low voltage to the firing mode selector pin on the wand board once every 30 seconds.

For my mods, I managed to use 2 arduino microcontrollers (a mini and a uno, it was all I had laying around at the moment) and some npn transistors to keep the wand and pack going indefinitely while maintaining control of the pack from the wand. I also stuffed another speaker plus a small amp to drive it into the wand.
Image
I would definitely love to know what transistors you used for this so I can start prepping for when my pack arrives.

Also, with the talent cell modification, do you still need to have d cells in the pack? Would rather not have to pick any up if I don't have to.
No D cell batteries. My pack runs entirely off the Talent Cell battery I mentioned in my first post.

I had some left over NPN Bipolar Transistors from Adafruit laying around which I used 2 of them for this project. They are based off the common 2N3904 NPN
https://www.adafruit.com/product/756
jonogunn liked this
#4976310
One time wrote: January 5th, 2023, 6:39 pm
gpstar wrote: January 5th, 2023, 3:36 pm
A constant power draw will not keep the pack going, all a constant draw will do is restart the pack after the shutdown timer expires and you will lose the ability to operate the pack from the wand.
Wow, I have so many questions.

1. What causes the wand to be inoperable if a constant draw from the powerbar restarts the pack? Would it not be possible to simply switch the wand on and off and regain control of the wand? (By twisting the powerbar off the wand if need be and disconnecting a hypothetical custom watch battery insert in the powerbar)

I can imagine that walking around a con with the pack volume off won’t be so bad if the pack restarts every 3 minutes. If we want to use the wand we could simply unholster it and switch it off and on, or even unscrew the powerbar with the (hypothetical) built in custom watch battery insert.

Not an ideal solution but would prevent needing to drill open the wand and solder.

2. What about if we keep the wand on indefinitely using an insert into the power bar.

Could we then unholster the wand to restart the pack after it has shut off?

Maybe I’m missing the point entirely, apologies if that is the case.

PS: great question also in the post just above mine
#1: When you have a constant draw on the U7 source from the pack. You will loose the ability to turn the pack on and off with the wand. The pack turns on and off based on the draw from that source. That is how the wand operates the pack to turn on and off. The constant source does not affect the wands functionality aside from operating the pack from the wand. So basically in short, if you just had a draw on that U7 source, you would have a pack restarting itself every 200 seconds (+ the wand shutting off as it requires power and the power will be off while the pack restarts itself.)

#2: To keep the wand on indefinitely, you need to either press a button on the wand once at least every 30 seconds, or in this case, fire some voltage to one of the button pins automatically from a power source briefly once every 30 seconds. In this case, the preferred method is to the fire mode selection switch as when the wand is in idle state (non-activate mode), it will not make a noise or do anything.
Nighty80 liked this
#4976315
jonogunn wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:17 am ^ for #2 will it keep alive if I’m activate mode?
Unfortunately no (for the wand, yes to the pack). I was able to keep it alive in active mode, but you loose the ability to change the vibration motor strength/wand strength setting. So I reverted back to the original idea which is only in the idle mode (activate off), and triggering the firing mode select.

However the pack will not shut down in any mode at all. Even if the wand shuts off, the pack stays running until you flip the bottom right wand switch. I rewired and replaced the wand on switch with one that just turns on my arduinos in the wand instead while the wand is in it's shutdown/off mode (even though it still has power). It is a bit confusing but I will explain soon. I am just drawing up some schematics now.
#4976321
This is awesome.

Although part of me thinks we have not exhausted all options yet for plug and play solutions that don't require drilling open the wand. I still have a hunch on that powerbar insert thingy with a watch battery.

If the pack can be powered on indefinitely simply by opening up the wand there could still be a way to do it using just the powerbar connectors. (as a modified wand that keeps the pack alive indefinitely also simply connects through those two powerbar connectors.)

Perhaps there will be some out of the box ideas as more people get these.
#4976324
gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 8:40 am
jonogunn wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:17 am ^ for #2 will it keep alive if I’m activate mode?
Unfortunately no (for the wand, yes to the pack). I was able to keep it alive in active mode, but you loose the ability to change the vibration motor strength/wand strength setting. So I reverted back to the original idea which is only in the idle mode (activate off), and triggering the firing mode select.

However the pack will not shut down in any mode at all. Even if the wand shuts off, the pack stays running until you flip the bottom right wand switch. I rewired and replaced the wand on switch with one that just turns on my arduinos in the wand instead while the wand is in it's shutdown/off mode (even though it still has power). It is a bit confusing but I will explain soon. I am just drawing up some schematics now.
I'll wait for the detailed post by you to see how it all wires up but you are saying it's possible. Say I don't care about the vibration strength control and would rather keep it alive in activate mode. Would it be an easy switch from your current set up?
#4976338
jonogunn wrote: January 6th, 2023, 12:29 pm
gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 8:40 am

Unfortunately no (for the wand, yes to the pack). I was able to keep it alive in active mode, but you loose the ability to change the vibration motor strength/wand strength setting. So I reverted back to the original idea which is only in the idle mode (activate off), and triggering the firing mode select.

However the pack will not shut down in any mode at all. Even if the wand shuts off, the pack stays running until you flip the bottom right wand switch. I rewired and replaced the wand on switch with one that just turns on my arduinos in the wand instead while the wand is in it's shutdown/off mode (even though it still has power). It is a bit confusing but I will explain soon. I am just drawing up some schematics now.
I'll wait for the detailed post by you to see how it all wires up but you are saying it's possible. Say I don't care about the vibration strength control and would rather keep it alive in activate mode. Would it be an easy switch from your current set up?
Hmm I guess it’s possible. If you don’t care about the vibration motor and disconnect it, then it would be a lot easier to do. But just to confirm, even with my mod, even if the wand is in activate mode and it shuts down or does the overheat thing, the pack will keep running

Meanwhile just finished miniaturising my setup with parts I had on hand. I will do a few more tests tomorrow then post up my wiring schematics and arduino code.
Image
Nighty80 liked this
#4976340
@gpstar
Man, thank you so much for doing this and posting it. After you post the schematics and stuff, I'm going to try it myself. I've never done any electronics myself but I am used to making and customizing things. This will be my intro into electronics and I can't wait to do more.
#4976341
gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 3:45 pm
jonogunn wrote: January 6th, 2023, 12:29 pm

I'll wait for the detailed post by you to see how it all wires up but you are saying it's possible. Say I don't care about the vibration strength control and would rather keep it alive in activate mode. Would it be an easy switch from your current set up?
Hmm I guess it’s possible. If you don’t care about the vibration motor and disconnect it, then it would be a lot easier to do. But just to confirm, even with my mod, even if the wand is in activate mode and it shuts down or does the overheat thing, the pack will keep running

Meanwhile just finished miniaturising my setup with parts I had on hand. I will do a few more tests tomorrow then post up my wiring schematics and arduino code.
Image
Are those both arduino mini boards?
#4976343
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gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 3:45 pmMeanwhile just finished miniaturising my setup with parts I had on hand. I will do a few more tests tomorrow then post up my wiring schematics and arduino code.

Dude, you rock!!!

Looks like you're using two of these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016RBLUZE

And a two of these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XW2OK7M

Should I order?

Is the LED needed?

Which plugs are you using?
#4976345
The Joker Buster wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:26 pm
gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 3:45 pm

Hmm I guess it’s possible. If you don’t care about the vibration motor and disconnect it, then it would be a lot easier to do. But just to confirm, even with my mod, even if the wand is in activate mode and it shuts down or does the overheat thing, the pack will keep running

Meanwhile just finished miniaturising my setup with parts I had on hand. I will do a few more tests tomorrow then post up my wiring schematics and arduino code.
Image
Are those both arduino mini boards?
Yes, adafruit metro minis.
#4976346
This post may contain an affiliate link that helps support GBFans.com when you make a purchase at no additional cost to you.

kahuna900 wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:28 pm
gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 3:45 pmMeanwhile just finished miniaturising my setup with parts I had on hand. I will do a few more tests tomorrow then post up my wiring schematics and arduino code.

Dude, you rock!!!

Looks like you're using two of these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016RBLUZE

And a two of these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XW2OK7M

Should I order?

Is the LED needed?

Which plugs are you using?
Yes it is what I’m using.

A led with a 150ohm resistor, required to draw some more power from the pack as a single metro mini barely has enough draw to trigger the pack on. The second metro mini I use to draw more power to vary the draw to trick the pack to never auto shutdown.

It is technically possible to use up to 6 leds and one metro mini, but it uses more space.

I use these plugs.
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/aw/d/B08JV9GR1 ... asin_title
Last edited by gpstar on January 6th, 2023, 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#4976347
Gpstar,
Truly great work. Just having the stay alive more then 30 seconds is a big win. But demonstrating 5v operation, and keeping the pack alive is huge. Truly, thank you.

Time for me to re-open my wand. I'd already replaced the mode button and installed orange hat lights with LEDs. I'm going to attempt your hack with an attiny85. Looking forward to more details.
#4976349
gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 3:45 pm
Hmm I guess it’s possible. If you don’t care about the vibration motor and disconnect it, then it would be a lot easier to do. But just to confirm, even with my mod, even if the wand is in activate mode and it shuts down or does the overheat thing, the pack will keep running
Yes thank you. I'm thinking more for the wand I plan to use with my custom pack. For Haslab pack I'll probably duplicate your method
#4976351
This post may contain an affiliate link that helps support GBFans.com when you make a purchase at no additional cost to you.

gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:47 pm
kahuna900 wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:28 pm


Dude, you rock!!!

Looks like you're using two of these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016RBLUZE

And a two of these... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00XW2OK7M

Should I order?

Is the LED needed?

Which plugs are you using?
Yes it is what I’m using.

A led with a 150ohm resistor, required to draw some more power from the pack as a single metro mini barely has enough draw to trigger the pack on. The second metro mini I use to draw more power to vary the draw to trick the pack to never auto shutdown.

It is technically possible to use up to 6 leds and one metro mini, but it uses more space.

I use these plugs.
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/aw/d/B08JV9GR1 ... asin_title
Do you have a link for the LEDs? I can't seem to find them myself. But I also know very little about electronics in this sense.
#4976364
Am I estimating correctly that a 20,000 mAh power supply will only last about twenty minutes!? For reference, I'm looking at a 9v 20,000 mAh device.

9v * 20 Ah = 180 Wh

180 Wh / 4.33 V = 41.57 Ah

20,000 mAh / 41,570 mAh = 0.481 hours

28 minutes and 52 seconds

Now factor in various inefficiencies... Maybe about 75% efficiency.

21 minutes and 39 seconds

This seems low but I'm not electrically inclined. Looking at adding a power bank and a battery eliminator. This seems to suggest that six full cycles would drain a 20,000 mAh, 9 v battery. If so, I can see WHY they'd have it power down every 200 seconds.

I have a feeling I'm making a mistake here but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what it is.
#4976369
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The Joker Buster wrote: January 6th, 2023, 7:48 pm
gpstar wrote: January 6th, 2023, 4:47 pm

Yes it is what I’m using.

A led with a 150ohm resistor, required to draw some more power from the pack as a single metro mini barely has enough draw to trigger the pack on. The second metro mini I use to draw more power to vary the draw to trick the pack to never auto shutdown.

It is technically possible to use up to 6 leds and one metro mini, but it uses more space.

I use these plugs.
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/aw/d/B08JV9GR1 ... asin_title
Do you have a link for the LEDs? I can't seem to find them myself. But I also know very little about electronics in this sense.
Just your typical LED's. I use these.
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B07CZG ... =UTF8&th=1

You will need some 150ohm resistors to go with the 2v 20mA colours (red/yellows for example) or 90ohms for the 3v 20mA colours (blues for example) when we are feeding 5V to them from a metro mini digital pin.

You will also need at least 1 on/off switch like these:
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B07RQ4 ... UTF8&psc=1

I just finished re-wiring the slo-blo led to be controlled by the metro mini board. I am going to run the pack for several hours tomorrow to make sure nothing melts or gets destroyed, then I will post up a single post with everything.
#4976370
Okay, maybe I had an incomplete picture.

I looked at benchmarks for home-built proton packs, which almost certainly consume more power.

Based on how long people say theirs last on different batteries, I came up with an estimate for a Proton Pack of 1.7 amps of current.

I plugged that into the following calculator with voltage of 4.3 volts...

https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electr ... lator.html

That yielded about 7 watts.

A 3.7 volt 20,000 mAh battery would have a capacity of 74 watt hours.

That results in 10.6 hours roughly but you want to reduce that down to about 85% due to inefficiency.

So a 20,000 mAh battery would power a proton pack for around 9 hours.

I got looking and my concern with most battery packs I own that could fit in the side compartment is that they tend to shut off when there's no draw. That could be a hassle.

So I looked for "always on" power banks and I found that the company Voltaic makes some.

They have a V25 rated at 6,400 mAh for around $40 and a V50 rated at 12,800 mAh for around $65. Their V75 is rated at 19,200 for $79 but is too big, at 6 inches. I'm not sure if the V50 will fit at 4.5 inches.

The V25 is 3 inches by 3 inches, which should fit. It's a bit pricey at $40 for 6,400 mAh but I like that it's always on when plugged in (no off switch or timeout) and passthrough, so it could work with a wall charger as a USB power input.

I suppose you could keep a second, cheaper USB battery in there too, attach it to the V25, and essentially have 12 hours of continuous power (9 pass through running from the other battery through the V25 and 3 hours direct from the V25).
#4976396
jonogunn wrote: January 7th, 2023, 7:30 pm
Neuromorph wrote: January 7th, 2023, 7:07 pm could you please sketch a wirediagram for the speakers and power upgrades. Its hard to follow with some of the images.
He’s going to be posting an in-depth instruction soon once he finalizes everything
I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and accept that I'm going to be drilling open the wand. The functionality seen here is just too good. Well done GPStar.
#4976403
One time wrote: January 7th, 2023, 8:13 pm
jonogunn wrote: January 7th, 2023, 7:30 pm

He’s going to be posting an in-depth instruction soon once he finalizes everything
I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and accept that I'm going to be drilling open the wand. The functionality seen here is just too good. Well done GPStar.
If you have a Swiss Army knife, the reamer works way better than a drill. A few twists into the cap and lift it out like a cork from a wine bottle.
Image
Last edited by gpstar on January 8th, 2023, 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
jonogunn liked this
#4976407
I'm wondering, I hadn't thought about it. @gpstar, will there be enough room for both of the pioneer speakers to mount to the motherboard like most people do with replica packs?
#4976408
gpstar wrote: January 8th, 2023, 1:46 am
One time wrote: January 7th, 2023, 8:13 pm

I think I'm going to just bite the bullet and accept that I'm going to be drilling open the wand. The functionality seen here is just too good. Well done GPStar.
If you have a Swiss Army knife, the reamer works way better than a drill. A few twists into the cap and lift it out like a cork from a wine bottle.

I second this. It's how I opened up both of my spengler wands. I also advise getting a micro screwdriver set handy for the wands screws. With at least 2½ inches of length to get down in the screw holes. For getting the screws back in, sometimes my driver likes to slide down between the plastic and the screw most of the time so I also use a headlamp so I can see down inside the screw holes.
#4976411
The Joker Buster wrote: January 8th, 2023, 3:50 am I'm wondering, I hadn't thought about it. @gpstar, will there be enough room for both of the pioneer speakers to mount to the motherboard like most people do with replica packs?
I would not attempt to mount speakers on the motherboard. In fact nothing is mounted on the motherboard, but instead mounted into the shell of the pack. There is just barely enough room to fit 2 of the 10cm speakers in the lower crank generator area in the shell. The areas in green is available space (including inside the HGA on the top left). The area in red is space that the D-cell battery tray on the motherboard takes. Since I no longer use the D-Cells and power everything from the talent cell battery pack, I could cut the tray off, but I decided to take the road of not cutting anything on my pack. There is a tiny bit of space on the outside of the cyclotron and around the vibration motor, but not much. Note the plastic piece circled in orange, you can remove this with 2 screws and it opens up the side compartment for more space, I took this out of mine and put my de-cased talent cell battery there.
Image

It is such a tight fit that nothing moves when the motherboard is put back on. I had to bend the metal housing down on the top and bottom of one speaker to make it fit snug and clear the motherboard. (ref: green arrow)
Image
zeta otaku liked this
#4976416
A little update. I have been testing the pack all day looking for bugs and quirks. I've had the pack running for over 1 hour straight non-stop and no issues. However I will need another day of tweaking the electronics. What I found was the bargraph led's were affecting the voltage draws which I did not account for. At my current setup, it works perfectly from 0-1 or 2 of the bargraph leds on, but then having bargraph leds 3, 4 and or 5 all on is affecting the draws levels from the pack and keeping them just a bit too low beneath the magic 4.17v threshold which I make it fluctuate above and below to keep the pack going non-stop. I will need to make some slight changes to compensate for that.
#4976418
Here’s a crazy question for you - Given there’s a switch to toggle between the 84 and Afterlife modes, do you think it’s possible to add separate LEDs for the cyclotron that are specific to the 84 mode?

I find the cyclotron LEDs look great for the Afterlife effect, but I think a singular LED or a circular grouping of LEDs might be better to more accurately recreate the 84 look.

Sean
#4976419
SP Productions wrote: January 8th, 2023, 9:59 am Here’s a crazy question for you - Given there’s a switch to toggle between the 84 and Afterlife modes, do you think it’s possible to add separate LEDs for the cyclotron that are specific to the 84 mode?

I find the cyclotron LEDs look great for the Afterlife effect, but I think a singular LED or a circular grouping of LEDs might be better to more accurately recreate the 84 look.

Sean
I know the pack refuses to run when the cyclotron leds are disconnected from the microcontroller, so that would be the only hurdle to over come.
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